BILL C-201 RCMP/Military Pensions passes second reading

[meni0n]

Military/RCMP Veterans
Against Annuity
Benefit Reduction at age 65



May 14, 2009



Subject: 2nd Reading Bill C-201



Dear Supporters and Friends,

We are pleased to announce that under the Leadership of Mr. Peter Stoffer, MP the motion of Bill C-201 was carried. (139 Yeas, 129 Nays)

Thanks to LCOL (ret’d) Jim Lumsden we are able to enclose the listing of MP’s who voted on the 2nd reading/vote held in the House of Commons on May 13, 2009.
In the near future we will send a letter of appreciation to Mr. Peter Stoffer, MP and we will ask Veterans to do the same.
Next on the agenda we will prepare a rebuttal letter to Mr. Laurie Hawn, MP for his shameful presentation against Bill C-201 in the House of Commons on May 12, 2009.
The above mention information will be translated and forwarded to you.
This fall a Committee will be formed and Bill C-201 will proceed to be properly evaluated. Further information will be made available in the near future.
It can no longer be denied that Military/RCMP Veterans where unfairly and unjustly treated, 116 Former Colonels and Generals and 111,000 supporters across 18 Countries have back up our claim!
Please distribute far and wide!

Sincerely,
John Labelle

Campaign Coordinator

florencejohn@ns.sympatico.ca



Important sites:

www.petitiononline.com/vets8

www.veteranvoice.info



Enclosure: 1





YEAS

Members

Allen (Welland)
André
Andrews
Angus
Ashton
Asselin
Atamanenko
Bachand
Bagnell
Bains
Bélanger
Bellavance
Bevington
Bigras
Blais
Bonsant
Bouchard
Bourgeois
Brison
Brunelle
Byrne
Cannis
Cardin
Carrier
Charlton
Christopherson
Coady
Coderre
Comartin
Cotler
Crête
Crombie
Crowder
Cullen
Cuzner
D'Amours
Davies (Vancouver Kingsway)
Davies (Vancouver East)
DeBellefeuille
Demers
Deschamps
Desnoyers
Dewar
Dhaliwal
Dion
Dorion
Dosanjh
Dryden
Duceppe
Dufour
Duncan (Etobicoke North)
Easter
Eyking
Faille
Foote
Fry
Gagnon
Garneau
Godin
Goodale
Gravelle
Guarnieri
Guay
Guimond (Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques)
Guimond (Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord)
Hall Findlay
Harris (St. John's East)
Holland
Hughes
Hyer
Jennings
Julian
Kania
Karygiannis
Kennedy
Laforest
Laframboise
Lalonde
Lavallée
Layton
LeBlanc
Lee
Lemay
Leslie
Lévesque
MacAulay
Malhi
Malo
Maloway
Marston
Martin (Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca)
Martin (Winnipeg Centre)
Martin (Sault Ste. Marie)
Masse
Mathyssen
McCallum
McKay (Scarborough—Guildwood)
McTeague
Ménard (Hochelaga)
Ménard (Marc-Aurèle-Fortin)
Mendes
Murphy (Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe)
Murphy (Charlottetown)
Murray
Neville
Oliphant
Pacetti
Paillé
Paquette
Patry
Pearson
Plamondon
Pomerleau
Rafferty
Ratansi
Regan
Rodriguez
Rota
Roy
Russell
Savage
Sgro
Siksay
Silva
Simms
Simson
St-Cyr
Stoffer
Szabo
Thi Lac
Thibeault
Tonks
Valeriote
Vincent
Volpe
Wasylycia-Leis
Wilfert
Wrzesnewskyj
Zarac

Total: -- 139




NAYS

Members

Abbott
Ablonczy
Aglukkaq
Albrecht
Allen (Tobique—Mactaquac)
Ambrose
Anderson
Arthur
Ashfield
Baird
Benoit
Bernier
Blackburn
Blaney
Block
Boucher
Boughen
Breitkreuz
Brown (Leeds—Grenville)
Brown (Newmarket—Aurora)
Brown (Barrie)
Cadman
Calandra
Carrie
Casson
Chong
Clarke
Clement
Cummins
Davidson
Day
Dechert
Del Mastro
Devolin
Dreeshen
Duncan (Vancouver Island North)
Dykstra
Fast
Finley
Flaherty
Fletcher
Galipeau
Gallant
Glover
Goldring
Goodyear
Gourde
Grewal
Guergis
Harris (Cariboo—Prince George)
Hawn
Hiebert
Hill
Hoback
Hoeppner
Holder
Jean
Kamp (Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission)
Keddy (South Shore—St. Margaret's)
Kenney (Calgary Southeast)
Kent
Kerr
Kramp (Prince Edward—Hastings)
Lake
Lauzon
Lebel
Lemieux
Lukiwski
Lunn
Lunney
MacKay (Central Nova)
MacKenzie
Mark
Mayes
McColeman
McLeod
Menzies
Merrifield
Miller
Moore (Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam)
Moore (Fundy Royal)
Nicholson
Norlock
O'Connor
O'Neill-Gordon
Obhrai
Oda
Paradis
Payne
Petit
Poilievre
Prentice
Preston
Raitt
Rajotte
Rathgeber
Reid
Richards
Richardson
Rickford
Ritz
Saxton
Scheer
Schellenberger
Shea
Shipley
Shory
Sorenson
Stanton
Storseth
Sweet
Thompson
Tilson
Toews
Trost
Tweed
Uppal
Van Kesteren
Van Loan
Vellacott
Verner
Wallace
Warkentin
Weston (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country)
Weston (Saint John)
Wong
Woodworth
Yelich
Young

Total: -- 129



Note, anyone in Petawawa notice Cheryl Gallant voted against it.

 

[brihard]

Being unaware of the specifics of this, can anyone summarize what the issue is? I've head there was something going on with pensions, but after my frustration with the reserve pension I had little desire to read about further pension controversy.

I'm noticing my MP voted against it...

 

[meni0n]

Remove the clawback on pensions once CPP kicks in.

 

[Sub_Guy]

MacKay a NAY?

Interesting......

 

[Old Sweat]

This vote appears to have been done on party lines with the Conservatives supporting the government position, and the others voting for the bill.

 

[brihard]

Remove the clawback on pensions once CPP kicks in.

OK. So if this passes, would reitirees be in receipt of BOTH CPP and the CF pension?

 

[dapaterson]

Right now retireees receive both CPP and a CFSA annuity.  Their contributions to the CFSA were based on a reduction of CFSA benefits at age 65 because CPP would kick in.

That many retirees never paid attention (or were too stupid to pay attention) should not entitle them to benefits they never paid for.

Every SCAN seminar passed on this information.  The CFSA and its related regulations relate this information.

Wonder if any of those who complain are willing to pay for this benefit?

 

[Michael OLeary]

Wonder if any of those who complain are willing to pay for this benefit?

Hmmm, maybe when the Reserve Pension office has finished all those calculations, they can start on the files for the ones wishing to top up their pension account to offset the CFSA reduction on receipt of CPP.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Presumably, if this goes through, this is going to cost a wack of money.  More to the point- how much is this going to cost me per month in increased pension contributions...

 

[antique]

Interesting responses.Let me just say,for the benefit of the younger generation,that back in 1964,65 and 66 when then CPP was rolled in,we,who were in the Canadian Army then,had NO such things as SCAN seminars.The rules then was"That's how it works and shut your mo#$@^"No explanations were given.I am a real old guy today mind you but...my mind still works.Was I given a choice then??NO
But I do know that MP's,judges do not have this reduction.I do know that MP's,judges Do not pay EI.
I served for 22 years the worked for another 20 after paying into CPP and EI.What did I get?NO EI when the company I worked for went south...NOT eligible because of military pension.I'm really not complaining here(because I took care of myself) just pointing out that some of are really relying on the CFSA to live after release.Who pays for this...well the EI pay by military could certainly help(me think don't get...don't pay).If Paul Martin had NOT depleted the CFSA account,you younger people would not have seen your contributions go up and the excess could have been used to better the life of some.If anything,the debate Will demonstrate that the members of the CF have a deal that is nowhere close to ant other Govt. employee..think SDB,marriage after 60 etc.One thing is certain,you will all grow older and face the music one day so...start taking care of yourself if you want to retire in financial health.
Regards
Just one old guy

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Antique-

You've made (IMHO) excellent points about taking care of your own financial affairs first and not counting the pension for everything.

The EI thing is an abortion that does need to be cleaned up, too.  But it is a side issue to the pension thing.

My fear here is that people are thinking- hey great! Bill C-201=free money!

I'm guessing that, if this passes, what is going to happen is that our pension rates will be recalculated and that this will be at the expense of take home pay today (My usual mantra in these sorts of situations is- TANSTAAFL).  I'm not sure about you, but I will take money in the bank today over hypothetical money in the bank tomorrow, every single time.

 

[Infanteer]

I'm sorry gents - I've done a little bit of snooping around but I'm totally lost on this one.  Can someone give me a quick snap of what the controversy is here?

 

[PuckChaser]

With an deficit of almost 85$ billion in order to fix the economy, this is the perfect time to cost people more money in CPP and CFSA contributions..... :

 

[Elorajen]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you pay into CPP your entire life. You also pay into a pension plan your entire life. You make sacrifices that most people are not asked to make when it comes to family, health and security. Isn't it unfair to also ask you when you turn 65, to have your pension clawed back because you are getting an additional benefit that you have paid into your entire working life?

Isn't it bad enough that you pay into EI your entire career and can only under one condition claim it?

I see the bill as a positive thing personally.

Your local MP only has to serve what, 4 years to get a complete pension that would support a small village forever.

 

[GAP]

Your local MP only has to serve what, 4 years to get a complete pension that would support a small village forever

six years, but who's counting....

 

[Long in the tooth]

Our military pension suffers 'the clawback' as it's under the onerous restrictions of the CPP, not a stand own entity.  That's the way it was written on unification 40 years ago.

On a different note, I have the option of taking my measely pension of $2090/month immediately, or a transfer value of 333,000 which must be placed in a Locked in Retirement Account (LIRA) until I'm 55 in six years.  I have a fair RRSP I can live on for a while.

Any thoughts?

 

[Elorajen]

Oh, and is this standard for other pensions? My dad works for a transit system, and he told me that his pension won't go through any sort of clawback. How is that fair?

I will have to check with my FIL (reg force, 33 years) to see if his pension was negatively affected, not sure if he has got there yet. Shows how much I pay attention.

Otto - maybe talk to a few different retirement specialist types? With a fixed pension, well, it's fixed. With the RRSP, you can WD to pay off a mortgage, pay for a trip etc. Instant access to cash if needed. Yeah, you may only be 49, but what if you're diagnosed with some horrific disease/illness, fat lot of good a fixed pension does your family when you're dead (it gets cut in half right). But hey, thats my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions!

 

[AmmoTech90]

In around 13 years your pension will have paid more than the transfer value, so by the time your 62 according your profile, and despite the whole CPP thing it will keep paying until you kick off.  In fact in the three years between 62 and 65 that's an additional 75k.  Depends on what you want and if you have anyone to support.  Does the RRSP you have now have good growth, if so let it grow and use it when you need to or want to?  2k a month is nothing to sneeze at, especially when you have severance pay to help pay down a mortgage.  If you have no kids or dependents, you can get a job picking up shopping carts for folding money depending on your lifestyle.

On another note, you can get a 3 bedroom villa in Thailand for around 95k.  Your 2000 a month would probably do you quite well there.  I recall in discussion with a release clerk that there are options with regard to the transfer value being taxed or not, and locked in or not, depending on where you settle. YMMV.

 

[Elorajen]

Just checked with the husband who knows about his dads clawback. His pension reduced by 700 bucks, CPP added 500. So, he's out 200 dollars a month.

 

[dapaterson]

Elorajen:  Did your FIL draw CPP before age 65?  That will reduce the CPP benefit, and may account for the delta between the end of the CFSA bridge benefit and the amount of CPP he received.  And it's not a clawback.  The pension has always stated that there's a base benefit, plus a bridge benefit to age 65.

At the end of the day, the CFSA is clear that the bridge benefit is only to age 65.  If folks want more money in retirement they should bank it away while working - if they want the CFSA to pay for it, they have to be ready to pay higher contribution rates.  I'd guess that if the bridge benefit is eliminated, and replaced with a CFSA benefit of 2% per year of service without reduction, currently serving soldiers will see their deductions increase by over $1600 each year (right now contributions are reduced on the amount CPP covers; eliminating that would mean 100% of pensionable earnings would have to be paid at about 4% more).