Black Watch not allowed to follow traditional regimental parade

[mcchartman]

I don't know if anyone of you is an avid reader of http://www.bourque.org/ like myself, but someone sent Pierre Bourque an e-mail regarding the re-routing of the annual regimental parade of the Black Watch down Sherbrooke St. See for yourself:

http://www.voy.com/178771/7761.html

From: sales@williamscully.ca
Subject: Black Watch Royal Highland Regiment of Canada not allowed to follow traditional parade route this Sunday
Date: May 5, 2006 10:27:07 AM EDT
To: pierre@bourque.com

Pierre,

Story:
Montreal has passed a bi-law stating that there are to be no parades on Sherbrooke st.
The Black Watch have marched with their Veterans to their Church down Sherbrooke st.
past such Scottish institutions as McGill, the McCord Museum etc. for approx 100 years.

This Sunday, the city is forcing them to take De Maissoneuve, through a Constructions site,
past franchise crap and strip bars etc.

Canada should know about this, as this is CANADA'S MOST SENIOR REGIMENT.
They have made this march for approx 100 years uninterrupted.

The Parade is this Sunday, the 7th. of May. There is still time to preserve the Sherbrooke st. march.

As a citizen of Canada, I find it to be an outrage that while we have soldiers in Afghanistan,
their support network and traditions at home are being undermined by petty bureaucracy!

Please advise.

Sincerely,
Will Scully

Now I must admit that I was not aware of this annual march but seeing how it is to be held on Sunday May 7th, I decided to post this without having researched the subject beforehand. Could anyone provide details on this annual parade? Regardless, it seems pretty outrageous to me.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

What is outrageous about a military unit being asked to follow the law?  Mr. Scully doesn't mention why the law was passed. Our annual Freedom of the City march has been rerouted many times, due of course to legitimate concerns such as construction - or when the front arch of our own armouries was condemned as unsafe before our renovations.

Before flying off the handle, I'd be interested in knowing why that street is off limits.

 

[paracowboy]

Before flying off the handle, I'd be interested in knowing why that street is off limits.

indeed. Perhaps it is so, because of potential dangers that could injure those on Parade?

If not, if it just some sort bureaucratic whim, THEN we can rise up in righteous indignation, and smite the unbelievers, hip and thigh, in the best tradition of the Black Watch themselves.

 

[parkie]

past franchise crap and strip bars etc.

Oh.sure! The dam highlanders get the strip bars.And they take me past the library. :boring:

 

[davidk]

As a citizen of Montreal and a member of the Black Watch, I too find this outrageous and unprecedented. The parade in question is the annual Church parade, which will be followed in this particular instance by a change of RSM. For anyone familiar with the streets of Montreal, the original route would leave the armoury and go up de Bleury for one block, then turn left on Sherbrooke, marching the approx 1.5km to the Church of St. Andrew and St. Paul. De Maisonneuve is parallel with Sherbrooke and just a block or two south, so technically speaking it wouldn't make much of a difference. However, Sherbrooke is a nicer and friendlier street, where many more people could see the parade. De Maisonneuve these days is usually filled with cranes and street repairs. The only reason I can think of for Sherbrooke being off-limits would be that it's a far busier street, but even that doesn't hold water, because on both Canada Day and St. Jean-Baptiste day (Quebec's equivalent) they have parades running through the heart of downtown on Ste-Catherine.

Bureaucratic garbage is what this is. A parade route that has been used for such a long time by such a distinguished unit (though not the most senior regiment in Canada, that goes to CGG...we're the senior HIGHLAND regiment) is not something to be tinkered with so lightly.

Anyway here's hoping that it goes well on Sunday, and three cheers for the new RSM.

 

[vonGarvin]

(Pedanticism on)
The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) is not Canada's senior infantry regiment.  That honour belongs to The Royal Canadian Regiment (by virtue of being Regular Force).  The order of precedence is regular then reserve.  In each the most senior are Guards (I believe) and then "the rest" in order of date of founding.  So, when the regular force regiments were The RCR, PPCLI, R22eR, The Canadian Guards, The Black Watch and The QOR, I believe that the order of precedence was thus:
The Canadian Guards
RHR
QOR
RCR
PPCLI
R22eR


(Pedanticism off)
Having said all that, I hope that someone, somewhere will allow the RHR to follow a more suitable parade route

 

[Old Sweat]

Von Garvin,

The order of prededence in the CA(R) was Canadian Guards, RCR, PPCLI, R22R, QOR and RHC. The last was the authorized abbreviation for the Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment of Canada).

My source is the 1965 Canadian Army Officers' List, the last edition published, a copy of which I was fortunately able to acquire.

 

[vonGarvin]

Von Garvin,

The order of prededence in the CA(R) was Canadian Guards, RCR, PPCLI, R22R, QOR and RHC. The last was the authorized abbreviation for the Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment of Canada).

My source is the 1965 Canadian Army Officers' List, the last edition published, a copy of which I was fortunately able to acquire.

Hey there
re: RHR/RHC: My bad.  Sorry bout that to any Black Watch out there
Just checked the old CFAO, and you are indeed correct: guards first, and then by unit date.  For reg force units, the date is when they became regular force, so Guards, RCR, PPCLI, R22eR, QOR then RHC.  Thanks for the info!

Garvin out

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

I'm trying hard to get outraged about this, but nothing is happening.

 

[mcchartman]

I don't know - it might just be me who overstates the importance of traditions in the forces, but I've always had the impression that the military profession was the most attached to traditions, and in turn was most influenced by them.

When talks were made in the 60's which ultimately led to the three services to be unified under the banner of the Canadian Forces in 1968, didn't the Navy protest against the introduction of a common rank structure (among other things) - and didn't the Navy ultimately get its way in keeping its own separate structure? What may seem as a triviality to some civilians (and I am one myself) can hold some very high importance in the minds of servicemen. Few civilians will care whether a Navy's Sub-Lieutenant is called a Sub-Lieutenant or a Lieutenant as he would be using the Army's rank system. Ultimately, I believe that altering traditions can have a very negative impact on the morale and willingness to serve of some servicemen. Of course, that doesn't mean that we should stop progressing altogether and be forever cast in a stalemate, but simply that there is no need for altering traditions when there is no good reason to do so.

In this particular case, the author of the e-mail says that a by-law was passed by the city of Montreal. I have not researched this information, but I wouldn't think that a by-law would be passed if the reason for denying access to Sherbrooke St. was simply the fact that it is "unsafe" as it was suggested by Michael. Then again, I do not know the exact reason for this by-law so anything I'd say would be nothing but speculation - and God knows you guys don't like speculation. The point is however, that I believe this to be a good example of a needless alteration of a seemingly well-rooted tradition. Hence my outrage.

 

[paracowboy]

so, someone who is outraged enough should probably write to the city of Montreal and find out why the by-law was passed, and if there can be an accomadation made for the Black Watch.

Until we have hard evidence, there will be very little done here to mobilize the troops, I'm afraid.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Don't municipalities have to give prior notice in writing (minimum 30 days, IIRC) before a by-law gets changed? Guess no one was paying attention, if that's the case.

 

[davidk]

I have with me in hand a copy of today's Montreal Gazette, which states,

"The city of Montreal forced the change for tomorrow's march of the Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada because it considers Sherbrooke unsafe, as it is the designated downtown route for the transport of biomedical, chemical and other hazardous materials."

As an aside, the other east-west corridor for hazardous materials, Gouin Blvd, is pretty far north and would force a major re-route of traffic.

Question answered.

The new parade route will go down de Bleury to de Maisonneuve, march until Bishop St., turn north and march until Sherbrooke and the Church. The way back will be down Mackay (ironically the name of our current CO) and onto Ste-Catherine for the march back to the armoury.

It'd be nice to fix bayonnets and march the old route anyway, but it's also printed that the RHC's adjutant agreed to the change as is the norm for federal bodies not getting involved in municipal affairs.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

So this whole 'tempest in a teapot' thread could have been avoided with an initial investigation for the facts.

Knowledge is Power.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Now I've got this big bubbling pot of righteous indignation, and nobody to fling it at......

 

[geo]

Don't municipalities have to give prior notice in writing (minimum 30 days, IIRC) before a by-law gets changed? Guess no one was paying attention, if that's the case.

The laws were changed many years ago. The BW were given a number of exemptions over the years - but they were running on borrowed time.

Before the BW gets their shorts tied up in a knot, most other Reserve units in Montreal have had to deal with the same problem at many times in the past......

get over it and live with it.

You get to parade down the middle of Ste Catherine street, the city's commercial core.... AND A STREET UPON WHICH MOST OTHER PARADES HAVE BEEN MOVED OFF OF. (In favor of Dorchester / René Levesque Blvd). The City is recognising the BWs significance...... just not the way some in the BW want it..... too bad, so sad, sniff.,...........

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

Wait!  I just felt some outrage!  Oh, wait, it's just heartburn.  Sorry.

 

[davidk]

You get to parade down the middle of Ste Catherine street, the city's commercial core.... AND A STREET UPON WHICH MOST OTHER PARADES HAVE BEEN MOVED OFF OF. (In favor of Dorchester / René Levesque Blvd). The City is recognising the BWs significance...... just not the way some in the BW want it..... too bad, so sad, sniff.,...........

I know, it could be a lot worse, and I'm happy that at least we get to march along Ste-Catherine. Still, the vets won't be happy...

I wonder how many of them have rusty Lee-Enfields up in their attic and a grudge against Mayor Tremblay? >

 

[mcchartman]

I'm real sorry about starting a "tempest in a teapot" - but I did specify that due to the limited time until Sunday's march, I did not research the subject in any way before posting about it. That has to count for something... no? Well how about that, coupled with the fact that I'm not from Montreal and the fact that I didn't write the e-mail in the first place but simply reproduced it then? Certainly that has to count for something... Still doesn't?  :-[
Won't happen again - no sir.  :-X

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'm real sorry about starting a "tempest in a teapot" - but I did specify that due to the limited time until Sunday's march, I did not research the subject in any way before posting about it. That has to count for something... no? Well how about that, coupled with the fact that I'm not from Montreal and the fact that I didn't write the e-mail in the first place but simply reproduced it then? Certainly that has to count for something... Still doesn't?  :-[
Won't happen again - no sir.  :-X

Holy Cow!!!

What a wonderful example of sarcastic, but self righteous, indignation!!! Gotta put that one in a frame. Thanks