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Bringing 'Em Back or Not? (I.D.'ed Cdn ISIS fighters, families, kids?)

Jarnhamar

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I totally believe our law enforcement people are onboard and don't want these POS in our country but the vibes our government is putting out just doesn't reflect that. Quite the opposite. They seem more about welcoming these wayward and lost souls in the name of diversity and inclusion.

Mass graves are still being discovered, ISIS is still bombing people (6dead 40 injured yesterday), ISIS is still kidnapping and murdering people.  Even if we don't have video evidence of someone committing a crime let's not take the risk and give people who even just "joined ISIS" a refuge in our country. I'm comfortable and happy to keep them out and if we're forced to allow them to come here then I think them being caught with Isis or in the vicinity of is enough grounds to nail them with terrorism charges.
 

daftandbarmy

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dapaterson said:
Except that was not the law.

Exactly. If we don't like this stuff happening, then we need to change our laws.

However, I've seen enough terrorists receive social services benefits from the country that is fighting against them to know that the 'long game' sometimes includes doing what seems basically schizo at the time.

 

reveng

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I'm willing to bet if any vigilante justice happens to one of these assclowns that the gov would direct more resources to convicting vigilantes than they spent trying to convict the terrorists.

 

MarkOttawa

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Useful article:

Canada’s Foreign Fighter Problem is No Surprise
https://www.lawfareblog.com/canadas-foreign-fighter-problem-no-surprise

Mark
Ottawa
 

ontheedge

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My gosh reading how Justice is dispensed amongst you infantry folk....This is why we have a JAG.
 

brihard

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ontheedge said:
My gosh reading how Justice is dispensed amongst you infantry folk....This is why we have a JAG.

Infantry here. What point is it that you’re making?
 

garb811

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ontheedge said:
My gosh reading how Justice is dispensed amongst you infantry folk....This is why we have a JAG.
Ontheedge:  I get it.  You're new and have a million questions and are full of what we refer to as piss and vinegar.  But at this point I'm going to advise you to take a few steps back and stop making so many posts based on assumptions.  You really aren't doing yourself a lot of favours right now and you are going to learn a lot more by letting some of these threads play out naturally than you will by what you are doing.
 

BeyondTheNow

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ontheedge said:
My gosh reading how Justice is dispensed amongst you infantry folk....This is why we have a JAG.

I’d caution you, as you’re an individual with no experience as a CAF member, to be more diplomatic and less judgemental with your thoughts towards how you perceive things are being done in certain areas. This was a polite suggestion, as some of your posts can be interpreted negatively.
 

OldSolduer

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ontheedge said:
My gosh reading how Justice is dispensed amongst you infantry folk....This is why we have a JAG.

What’s your point?

Maybe sometimes tough people dispense controlled armed violence on those our government has deemed enemies. Got a problem with that?
Infantry for over 35 years here.
 

ontheedge

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I was referring mostly to the AMAX comment and the support it got.  I presume it was in jest as was my comment.
 

BeyondTheNow

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Okay folks, let’s move on with the discussion. The user was inadvertently made aware of his tone by two DS posting the same advisement at the same time, plus he’s had the chance to now view how his comments were received. Good learning opportunity, now time to get back on track.

Staff
 

Eye In The Sky

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Specifically with regard to the topic of returning ISIS fighter and supporters returning to Canada, the more efficiently the infantry and others are permitted to do their job in the battle space, the less fighting in the courtrooms lawyers will have to do.

IF the target is legit and the *targeting process is followed (I won't speak to 'efficiency and timeliness' of that process sometimes  ::)), I don't see a problem.  Unfortunately, this Jihad Jack never ended up in someone's crosshairs so here we are debating his disposition and of those like him.

*OnTheEdge,  you'll hopefully be pleasantly surprised that Legal Officers are involved in the targeting/engagement "stuff" was well with advising on ROEs, and advising Commanders on strike/no-strike decisions. 
 

OldSolduer

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ontheedge said:
I was referring mostly to the AMAX comment and the support it got.  I presume it was in jest as was my comment.

Oh yes in jest. This a??clown jihadi might be responsible for the deaths of a number of innocent people.
By all means let’s bring the poor misunderstood urchin to Canada to cure him of his bad practices.
 

Jarnhamar

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Credit where it's due, a good if surprising move by the government.

Sadly the story highlights how ridiculously slow our justice system can be. Looks like it will still be a while before he's deported.

A B.C. man whose Facebook posts promoted ISIS and praised lone wolf terrorist attacks has been ordered deported from Canada.

The Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada has ruled that Othman Hamdan of Fort St. John is a "danger to the security of Canada" and is therefore inadmissible.

"While Mr. Hamdan has no history of violence, he has praised lone wolf attacks, actively promoted the Islamic State, disseminated instructions on how to commit attacks and seems fascinated with the extreme violence of the Islamic State demonstrated by possessing Islamic State videos depicting gruesome murders," IRB member Marc Tessler wrote in an Oct. 18 decision.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/man-who-praised-isis-on-social-media-ordered-deported-from-canada-1.4880418?fbclid=IwAR0Cx28TQLM9njcrM3c8FZJ-XmjRdWlGsBp_XWGz5FW3xzUQ75Q_6WZhOqE
 

kratz

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Thank you Jarnhamar.

"It's easy to find fault,
It's more challenging to find agreement."
- Unknown

Our system can work.
 

The Bread Guy

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Remember Pamir Hakimzadah mentioned here?

This from Global via Twitter ...
Pamir Hakimzadah was sentenced Thursday to 6 months for trying to join ISIS, in addition to the time he has spent in custody since his June 2016 arrest ... He will be eligible for parole in 3 months. Upon release he must undergo religious counselling and stay away from terror supporters and materials ... Because he pleaded guilty, little was publicly aired about the case, but Global News has obtained a summary of the investigation, and it raises questions. The story: ... How does a terrorism offence with a 10-year maximum become 3 months? Sentenced imposed: 4 yrs, 1 mos. Pretrial custody: 792 days x 1.5=3 years, 3 months credit. Days jail was on lockdown: 250=four months credit. Remaining sentence=6 months x .5 parole eligibility Total: 3 mos. ... But the judge did impose 3 years probation with several conditions: - religious counseling, - psychotherapy, - interview w/probation officer every 6 months on effects of de-radicalization, - no passport, weapons, terror literature etc...

As for the other person mentioned in the above-linked post, Rehab Dughmosh, she got 7 years earlier this month for trying to head to ISIS country and for an attack in a Scarborough Canadian Tire.
 

The Bread Guy

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A little more from the Public Prosecution Service of Canada ...
Today in the Ontario Superior Court, Pamir Hakimzadah was sentenced to six months in jail in addition to three years and seven months credit for the time he has already spent in custody after pleading guilty earlier this month to leaving Canada to participate in the activity of a terrorist group, contrary to section 83.181 of the Criminal Code.He also receivedthree years of probation requiring adherence to a deradicalization program.

On October 22, 2014, Mr. Hakimzadah left Canada and travelled to Istanbul, Turkey with the intention of entering Syria to join ISIS. He was detained by Turkish officials before he could enter Syria and was deported back to Canada. He was subsequently charged with the offence following an RCMP investigation.

According to the agreed statement of facts, Mr. Hakimzadah had exhibited increasingly radical Islamic beliefs prior to his departure, speaking in favour of, or in defence of ISIS. He viewed online ISIS videos and posts, as well as a website on how to get into Syria ...
 

The Bread Guy

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Another couple of Canadian dual citizens identified as "guests" of Kurdish forces in Syria ...
... Safraz Ali, a 39-year-old dual Trinidadian and Canadian citizen, says he was recruited by fellow Trinidadians and joined the Islamic State in 2015 “to help the Syrian people.” He explained, “I didn’t seek out [IS execution] videos. I was against all of that. They sent me to Iraq to fight. I refused and fled to Syria on a bus. I had trauma training. I would go out after coalition bombings and pick up wounded children and take them to the hospital.” He ended up in Al Bab, where “people were so kind they would give you the shirts off their backs.” After Turkish troops captured the town in 2016 he moved on to Raqqa. “People were much harsher, crueler there.”

Ali is rail thin. His eyes are glazed. He seems weak. “I have terminal Crohn’s disease,” he said. “They don’t have proper medicine here. I have rectal bleeding, dizzy spells and blurry vision.” He clutches an inhaler in his hand. “Asthma,” he explains. He says he is scared but far more concerned for his wife. It emerges that he is married to Kimberley Gwen Polman, 46, a dual US and Canadian citizen he met in Raqqa who was profiled by the New York Times.

They were married in 2016 and made plans to flee together soon after. They were in touch with Polman’s family and a Canadian official who handled such cases, he claimed. The pair was ratted out by spies and briefly imprisoned in Raqqa and continued to plot their escape once they were freed. “We led the life of fugitives,” he said, describing a harrowing odyssey that took the couple from Raqqa to Mayadeen and then Hajin. They finally turned themselves over to SDF forces a little over a month ago. “We desperately wanted to have children. Kimberley had five miscarriages,” he said. “I spend all my time thinking about my wife.”

I feel sorry for him and offer reasons he might have joined the Islamic State. His father, a Christian, and his mother, a Muslim, were divorced. Had he had a rough childhood? His Gandhi-like demeanor evaporates. “You are psychologically profiling me,” he said with a cold, hard look. It's time to end the conversation. The minder handcuffs Ali and leads him away.

I'll also slowly bring in other posts/threads here to offer up a "one-stop window" of open-source info on Canadians playing on the ISIS team.  I'll leave the threads dealing with specific, individual court proceedings stand alone for now.
 

Cloud Cover

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Jarnhamar said:
Credit where it's due, a good if surprising move by the government.

Sadly the story highlights how ridiculously slow our justice system can be. Looks like it will still be a while before he's deported.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/man-who-praised-isis-on-social-media-ordered-deported-from-canada-1.4880418?fbclid=IwAR0Cx28TQLM9njcrM3c8FZJ-XmjRdWlGsBp_XWGz5FW3xzUQ75Q_6WZhOqE

His appeal ended up in his favour so far despite this strong statement by the Federal Court Judge:
“[1]  Mr. Hamdan is an unmitigated liar. One must wonder if he has uttered one truthful word since he came to Canada in 2002. His refugee claim was accepted in 2004. The basis thereof was that he had converted to Christianity from Islam and faced a serious risk of persecution should he be returned to Jordan.” 

...

“[17]  Although the evidence in this case may be somewhat scanty, there is some evidence to suggest that a misrepresentation had indeed taken place. In context, scanty evidence can support an inference to find as a fact that an event actually occurred (Whirlpool Inc. v Camco Inc., 2000 SCC 67 (CanLII), [2000] 2 SCR 1067. The only evidence from Mr. Hamdan was his denial. The record clearly shows that his word is not to be trusted so that the presumption he is telling the truth is rebutted (Maldonado v. Canada (M.E.I.), [1980] 2 FC 302 (C.A.)).
[18]  For these reasons, judicial review is allowed and the matter is referred back to the IRB for redetermination before a new member, both with respect to religion and criminality.”

His misrepresentation: he may be a drug dealer at one time, and since Hamas frowns on wealth created by illegal acts not controlled by them, his life might be at risk in Jordan.


Canada (Citizenship and Immigration) v. Hamdan, 2018 FC 1177 (CanLII), <http://canlii.ca/t/hw8gh>, retrieved on 2019-03-17

- mod edit to make link work -
 
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