Bringing 'Em Back or Not? (I.D.'ed Cdn ISIS fighters, families, kids?)

[daftandbarmy]

What is it with people from Squamish?

They're a very passionate people... might have something to do with being able to own your own home so close to alot of great drugs


“My radicalization was really about impressing my boyfriend, Gerry. What turned Gerry on was me being a militant urban guerrilla. … He wasn’t my boyfriend, he had no feelings for me.”

Ian Mulgrew: Former Squamish Five terrorist transforms from bombing to filmmaking

Juliet Belmas was sentenced to 20 years for her role in the Squamish Five after waging a violent campaign in the early 1980s that included bombing an Ontario factory making U.S. missile parts.

vancouversun.com

 

[GK .Dundas]

Just moved these last two posts here where they & other returnees have been discussed.

Milnet.ca Staff

This from the RCMP info-machine ...

BC RCMP - BC woman charged with terrorism offences

BC woman charged with terrorism offences

bc-cb.rcmp-grc.gc.ca

... and a bit of back story (Nov 2023) ...

B.C. ‘sexy senior’ was part of ISIS women’s battalion, RCMP alleges | Globalnews.ca

Kimberly Polman was allegedly trained by ISIS to fight. The Canadian served in Katibah Nusaybah, an ISIS branch that provided weapons training to women.

globalnews.ca

... and what Wikipedia has to say about that ISIS female unit

Katibah Nusantara - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Usual reminder: According to Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms, "Any person charged with an offence has the right .... to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal."

I think I'd like to know more about this Sean Moore fellow.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I think I'd like to know more about this Sean Moore fellow.

Quite the ... adventurer, him - an initial Google-fu shows he seems to have done work trying to help Yazidis et. al. in/around Kurdistan. Some back story going back to 2015 ...

Local men aiding refugees in Iraq | The Chatham Voice

Unhappy with delays and politicization of humanitarian aid, three men are headed to Iraq next month to provide aid to a town full of refugees from the Islamic terrorist group ISIS. Sean Moore and Phiez Solomon will be returning to the war-ravaged town of Duhok Seje in the region of Kurdistan in...

chathamvoice.com

Chatham man detained by al Qaeda affiliate to meet with Trudeau

In a recent Facebook post, Moore says he has received an email from the Prime Minister’s office and is looking forward to speaking with him soon.

windsor.ctvnews.ca

Sean Moore and Jeff Bultje plan to bring message of hope

Two Chatham men are heading to Iraq Nov. 13 to help some of the innocent people caught up in the war with the terrorist group ISIS.

www.wallaceburgcourierpress.com

Israeli Gill Rosenberg returns to Iraqi Kurdistan to work with charity

JERUSALEM,— An Israeli-Canadian woman who joined the Kurdish militants fighting Islamic State (IS) in Syrian Kurdistan last year has returned to Kurdistan

ekurd.net

"Canadian man held captive in Syria says he was tortured, kept in cell that felt 'like a coffin' " (cbc.ca)

 

[The Bread Guy]

The latest on one of those wanting to come back to Canada ...

Joly faces calls for probe in death of woman Canada refused to repatriate from Syria

OTTAWA - Advocates want Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly to call an impartial investigation into the death of a Canadian woman the federal government refused to repatriate from a Syrian

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

A bit of back story: kids brought back earlier this year ...

Canada repatriates 6 children of woman deemed security risk from ISIS camp - National | Globalnews.ca

The children of a woman detained in a camp for captured ISIS members are now in Canada. The family lawyer said a family will house all six of them together.

globalnews.ca

... without the mom. Federal Court was asked to allow the mom back in late last year ...

Lawyer challenges federal decision to deny help to woman with six children in Syria

OTTAWA — A lawyer is urging the Federal Court to direct the Canadian government to repatriate a Quebec woman being held in a Syrian detention camp with her six children.

www.delta-optimist.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/quebec-mother-of-six-repatriation-syria-legal-challenge-1.6977804

... but I can't find the case on the FC site.

 

[The Bread Guy]

A bit of the latest via CTV ...

Canadian ISIS sniper: I didn't behead anyone or anything like that! (archived here)

'I never took part in beheadings': Canadian ISIS sniper has warning about future of terror group

An admitted Canadian ISIS sniper held in one of northeast Syria’s highest-security prisons has issued a stark warning about the potential resurgence of the terror group.

www.ctvnews.ca

A 'ticking time bomb': Inside Syria's toughest prison holding accused high-ranking ISIS members

In the last of a three-part investigation, W5's Avery Haines was given rare access to a Syrian prison, where thousands of accused high-ranking ISIS members are being held.

www.ctvnews.ca

Then there's (still) this guy (archived here and here) - says he's OK coming back to Canada & prefers to serve a sentence in Canadian jail (although media statements aren't taken under oath, right?).

Canada's least wanted man: A family's long and lonely fight to bring their son home from Syria

Counterterrorism experts and humanitarian groups are urging countries to repatriate suspected ISIS members, as one family tells CTV W5 about their long and lonely fight to bring their son home from Syria.

www.ctvnews.ca

'Let me rot in Canada,' pleads Canadian ISIS suspect from secret Syrian prison

W5's Avery Haines tells the story of Jack Letts, a Canadian Muslim convert in a Syrian jail, accused of being a member of ISIS. In part two of a three-part investigation, Haines speaks with Letts, who issues a plea to return to Canada to face justice.

www.ctvnews.ca

More backstory on Letts (dual Brit-Canadian who's had his Brit citizenship stripped - in March of this year, The Supremes decided not to hear a case brought by his family's lawyer to bring him & some others back to Canada)

Jack Letts - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[brihard]

Then there's (still) this guy (archived here and here) - says he's OK coming back to Canada & prefers to serve a sentence in Canadian jail (although media statements aren't taken under oath, right?).

Canada's least wanted man: A family's long and lonely fight to bring their son home from Syria

Counterterrorism experts and humanitarian groups are urging countries to repatriate suspected ISIS members, as one family tells CTV W5 about their long and lonely fight to bring their son home from Syria.

www.ctvnews.ca

'Let me rot in Canada,' pleads Canadian ISIS suspect from secret Syrian prison

W5's Avery Haines tells the story of Jack Letts, a Canadian Muslim convert in a Syrian jail, accused of being a member of ISIS. In part two of a three-part investigation, Haines speaks with Letts, who issues a plea to return to Canada to face justice.

www.ctvnews.ca

More backstory on Letts (dual Brit-Canadian who's had his Brit citizenship stripped - in March of this year, The Supremes decided not to hear a case brought by his family's lawyer to bring him & some others back to Canada)

Jack Letts - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Following the SCC denial of leave to appeal in Letts’ case in March, his lawyers filed a last ditch motion for the court to reconsider the denial of leave to appeal. That was denied on November 1st. Letts’ case to be repatriated has run its full course through Canadian courts and he has lost fully and finally. If he ever comes to Canada (I won’t say ‘return’, cause although a dual citizen I don’t believe he’s ever been here), it won’t be because the courts forced the government to facilitate it.

The other male Canadian ISIS suspects detained in Syrian were part of the same chain of cases and were denied leave to appeal to SCC in, I think, the same decision. Letts is the only case I know of who asked the SCC to reconsider, and it was denied. Safe bet none of the rest would prevail with the same request.

Any Canadian citizen has the right to enter Canada should they make it here, but the courts have made it clear the government has no obligation to help repatriate them.

 

[Maxman1]

In other words:

 

[OldSolduer]

The other male Canadian ISIS suspects detained in Syrian were part of the same chain of cases and were denied leave to appeal to SCC in, I think, the same decision. Letts is the only case I know of who asked the SCC to reconsider, and it was denied. Safe bet none of the rest would prevail with the same request.

Any Canadian citizen has the right to enter Canada should they make it here, but the courts have made it clear the government has no obligation to help repatriate them.

IF they manage to make it back, could they be arrested and held for trial?

 

[brihard]

IF they manage to make it back, could they be arrested and held for trial?

Like any crime, it depends on what evidence exists that crown would feel able to use in court.

 

[RangerRay]

I’m guessing the reason the Kurds aren’t putting them on planes and deporting them to St. John’s is they don’t have the money for that.

 

[brihard]

Edit- Double posted somehow

 

[daftandbarmy]

Well, this is good news...

In first for Canada, woman convicted for ‘family support’ role in ISIS | Globalnews.ca

Oumaima Chouay is the first of several Canadian women who were captured in Syria during the war against ISIS to be convicted of terrorism. She was handed a one-day sentence.

globalnews.ca

 

[brihard]

Well, this is good news...

In first for Canada, woman convicted for ‘family support’ role in ISIS | Globalnews.ca

Oumaima Chouay is the first of several Canadian women who were captured in Syria during the war against ISIS to be convicted of terrorism. She was handed a one-day sentence.

globalnews.ca

The sentencing on this will be fascinating to read.

I expect some people will be pretty unhappy with time served, it she spent years in a really awful Kurdish prison camp without any due process whatsoever, and it took the government of Canada quite a while to agree to repatriate her. That will probably factor. She went over there very young, and essentially was a ‘bride of ISIS’ but didn’t directly participate in anything. I’m curious, had she. It pled guilty and it went to trial, and heather in fact crown would have succeeded in proving the terrorism offence.

I don’t believe there’s any direct precedent for a case like this, so it’ll be interesting to see how the judge reasons out the sentence.

 

[The Bread Guy]

The sentencing on this will be fascinating to read.

I expect some people will be pretty unhappy with time served, it she spent years in a really awful Kurdish prison camp without any due process whatsoever, and it took the government of Canada quite a while to agree to repatriate her. That will probably factor. She went over there very young, and essentially was a ‘bride of ISIS’ but didn’t directly participate in anything. I’m curious, had she. It pled guilty and it went to trial, and heather in fact crown would have succeeded in proving the terrorism offence.

I don’t believe there’s any direct precedent for a case like this, so it’ll be interesting to see how the judge reasons out the sentence.

Can't find anything from the judge yet, but this tidbit is in the Public Prosecution Service statement (also attached if link doesn't work):

OUMAIMA CHOUAY SENTENCED FOLLOWING A GUILTY PLEA

/CNW/ - Today, in the Court of Quebec, Oumaima Chouay pleaded guilty to one count of participating in the activities of a terrorist group, namely the Islamic...

www.newswire.ca

"... In an Agreed Statement of Facts filed with the court, Ms. Chouay admitted to travelling to Syria to join the ranks of ISIS, knowing that her expected role would include marrying an ISIS fighter and raising children under the ISIS doctrine. Ms. Chouay is not suspected of having participated directly in terrorist activities, namely actual combat.

In addition to her pre-trial custody, Ms. Chouay has been subject to strict bail conditions since January 2023 and has participated in depolarization therapy. Independent psychiatric and psychological experts in the field of terrorism evaluated Ms. Chouay's progress over the past 30 and a half months and concluded that the risk of recidivism and dangerousness is very low. The Integrated National Security Enforcement Team led by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police share the assessment that she does not present a significant risk to Canadian society.

Director of Public Prosecution, George Dolhai, stated: "The recommended sentence here takes into consideration the early, ongoing, demonstrated and independently evaluated steps Ms. Chouay has taken to demonstrate remorse, take responsibility, commit to fundamental change and a rejection of extremist ideology. This addresses the ultimate goal of protecting the community" ..."

 

[Czech_pivo]

Can't find anything from the judge yet, but this tidbit is in the Public Prosecution Service statement (also attached if link doesn't work):

OUMAIMA CHOUAY SENTENCED FOLLOWING A GUILTY PLEA

/CNW/ - Today, in the Court of Quebec, Oumaima Chouay pleaded guilty to one count of participating in the activities of a terrorist group, namely the Islamic...

www.newswire.ca

"... In an Agreed Statement of Facts filed with the court, Ms. Chouay admitted to travelling to Syria to join the ranks of ISIS, knowing that her expected role would include marrying an ISIS fighter and raising children under the ISIS doctrine. Ms. Chouay is not suspected of having participated directly in terrorist activities, namely actual combat.

In addition to her pre-trial custody, Ms. Chouay has been subject to strict bail conditions since January 2023 and has participated in depolarization therapy. Independent psychiatric and psychological experts in the field of terrorism evaluated Ms. Chouay's progress over the past 30 and a half months and concluded that the risk of recidivism and dangerousness is very low. The Integrated National Security Enforcement Team led by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police share the assessment that she does not present a significant risk to Canadian society.

Director of Public Prosecution, George Dolhai, stated: "The recommended sentence here takes into consideration the early, ongoing, demonstrated and independently evaluated steps Ms. Chouay has taken to demonstrate remorse, take responsibility, commit to fundamental change and a rejection of extremist ideology. This addresses the ultimate goal of protecting the community" ..."

Too bad that the original homeowners in Mosul, Tel Afar and where ever else she lived in the 'donated' houses she was given, can't be found and sue her for 'rent/lease' payments while she lived in their homes. Sue her for destruction of property or whatever.

 

[brihard]

Too bad that the original homeowners in Mosul, Tel Afar and where ever else she lived in the 'donated' houses she was given, can't be found and sue her for 'rent/lease' payments while she lived in their homes. Sue her for destruction of property or whatever.

It!’s funny you say that. In the international war crimes investigation/prosecution community, there’s been appetite to investigate and prosecute the war crime of ‘pillaging’ to cover exactly this sort of expropriation of homes and goods by ISIS, and giving same to people who went over to join. The Germans have had at least two succesful pillaging prosecutions.

It would be damned hard to make such a prosecution in Canada under the Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes Act, but the law does exist to do it if the admissible (and fairly specific) evidence can be obtained.

Canada’s judicial system makes war crimes prosecutions very hard, often due to the quality and provenance of the evidence…

 

[Czech_pivo]

It!’s funny you say that. In the international war crimes investigation/prosecution community, there’s been appetite to investigate and prosecute the war crime of ‘pillaging’ to cover exactly this sort of expropriation of homes and goods by ISIS, and giving same to people who went over to join. The Germans have had at least two succesful pillaging prosecutions.

It would be damned hard to make such a prosecution in Canada under the Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes Act, but the law does exist to do it if the admissible (and fairly specific) evidence can be obtained.

Canada’s judicial system makes war crimes prosecutions very hard, often due to the quality and provenance of the evidence…

There is a case ongoing now in Montreal of a former Iraqi Jewish family who's ancestorial home in Baghdad has been the residence of the French Ambassador for a few decades now. At first France paid them a 'lease' payment for their house (which the Iraqi government seized in the past) but over the years France has not been making the payments. Its now in front of the courts.

How a Montreal family, a Baghdad embassy and the French government became entwined in a legal drama

A descendant of Iraqi Jews fights for redress for the mansion his ancestors left behind

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[brihard]

There is a case ongoing now in Montreal of a former Iraqi Jewish family who's ancestorial home in Baghdad has been the residence of the French Ambassador for a few decades now. At first France paid them a 'lease' payment for their house (which the Iraqi government seized in the past) but over the years France has not been making the payments. Its now in front of the courts.

How a Montreal family, a Baghdad embassy and the French government became entwined in a legal drama

A descendant of Iraqi Jews fights for redress for the mansion his ancestors left behind

www.theglobeandmail.com

That’s an interesting one, thanks for that.

A challenging reality of going civil against former ISIS members is they’re unlikely to have any assets from which damages can be recovered.

Civil’s not really my jam though, I’m far more comfortable weighing in on the criminal law side.

 

[Czech_pivo]

That’s an interesting one, thanks for that.

A challenging reality of going civil against former ISIS members is they’re unlikely to have any assets from which damages can be recovered.

Civil’s not really my jam though, I’m far more comfortable weighing in on the criminal law side.

All for 'garnishing' any future wages that they may have or come into, in the future until the debt has been paid off.

 

[OldSolduer]

Can't find anything from the judge yet, but this tidbit is in the Public Prosecution Service statement (also attached if link doesn't work):

OUMAIMA CHOUAY SENTENCED FOLLOWING A GUILTY PLEA

/CNW/ - Today, in the Court of Quebec, Oumaima Chouay pleaded guilty to one count of participating in the activities of a terrorist group, namely the Islamic...

www.newswire.ca

"... In an Agreed Statement of Facts filed with the court, Ms. Chouay admitted to travelling to Syria to join the ranks of ISIS, knowing that her expected role would include marrying an ISIS fighter and raising children under the ISIS doctrine. Ms. Chouay is not suspected of having participated directly in terrorist activities, namely actual combat.

In addition to her pre-trial custody, Ms. Chouay has been subject to strict bail conditions since January 2023 and has participated in depolarization therapy. Independent psychiatric and psychological experts in the field of terrorism evaluated Ms. Chouay's progress over the past 30 and a half months and concluded that the risk of recidivism and dangerousness is very low. The Integrated National Security Enforcement Team led by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police share the assessment that she does not present a significant risk to Canadian society.

Director of Public Prosecution, George Dolhai, stated: "The recommended sentence here takes into consideration the early, ongoing, demonstrated and independently evaluated steps Ms. Chouay has taken to demonstrate remorse, take responsibility, commit to fundamental change and a rejection of extremist ideology. This addresses the ultimate goal of protecting the community" ..."

In 1976 the government of PET decided "rehabilitation" should be the focus of prisons and less on punishment.

Lets see how that works out, because so far it seems to have failed.