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Brits Balk at RAF Kamikaze Plan

CougarKing

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I have the utmost respect for the RAF, but this is appalling. It's like adopting the Al-Qaeda/Taliban suicide bombers' tactics at a different level.  :eek:

(Isn't the Sun a tabloid? Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2007150271,00.html

Fury at RAF Kamikaze plan
 
By JOHN KAY
APRIL 03, 2007

RAF Top Guns were stunned last night after being asked to think of being Kamikaze pilots in the war on terror.

Elite fliers were shocked into silence when a senior RAF chief said they should consider suicide missions as a last resort against terrorist targets.

Air Vice Marshal David Walker put forward the attacks — like those flown by desperate Japanese pilots in World War Two — as a “worst case scenario” should they run out of ammo or their weapons failed.

He asked aircrews at a conference: “Would you think it unreasonable if I ordered you to fly your aircraft into the ground in order to destroy a vehicle carrying a Taliban or al-Qaeda commander?”


Such an order would mean certain death for a pilot who cost £6million to train — and the loss of a £50million jet.

Last night pilots slammed the suggestion as “utter madness”. One — summing up a flabbergasted “After you, Sir” reaction — said: “I’m prepared to give it a go but only if the Air Vice Marshal shows me how to do it first.”

Another added: “The idea of officers ordering personnel to commit suicide is disgusting.”

Air Vice Marshal Walker is head of the RAF’s elite One Group and in operational control of all our Typhoon, Tornado, Jaguar, and Harrier fighters and bombers.

The crews he was addressing included newly-qualified pilots of the Typhoon, Britain’s latest state-of-the-art fighter.

The officer, based in the Air Command bunker at High Wycombe, Bucks, gave an example of the sacrifice to be expected from a wartime Spitfire pilot if his guns had jammed and Nazi leader Adolf Hitler was in a car below.

Air Vice Marshal Walker — himself a former Top Gun Harrier pilot who had his cockpit canopy shot out in action over Iraq — told crews they knew when they joined up they would have to risk their lives.

But one Top Gun stormed: “His idea of leadership is to suggest that it is within his power to authorise the first example of an ordered Kamikaze attack in the RAF’s 89-year history.

“He is subtly suggesting that if he wished he could order anyone in his command to die.”

Another said: “Imagine, as you are floating skyward towards the pearly gates having parked your jet in the desert at 500 knots, that intelligence had it wrong and that the bloke driving the car was actually a plumber taking his children to school?

“Imagine trying to fly your fast pointy thing at an evading car. The bloke driving only has to swerve at the last minute and it’s Goodnight Vienna, mission failed.”

A third said: “The politicians tell us that we have the right troops and equipment for the job. Surely such tactics, not to mention the loss of expensive equipment and manpower, are not required.”

A Top Gun who was at the conference likened it to a scene from Rowan Atkinson’s madcap historical comedy, saying: “It was a true Blackadder moment — a huge shock.”

Modern jets carry smart kit which ensure that missiles and bombs are so accurate that they can be put through the window of a house.

A military source said: “The need to do a kamikaze attack would probably only arise if a very high-value target was to suddenly appear and the jet was out of ammo.

“There would be no way for a pilot to survive if he wanted to hit a vehicle.”

A senior MoD source said: “Air Vice Marshal Walker was not saying that he would order his crews to sacrifice their lives in order to kill a high-value al-Qaeda target or stop a suicide airliner. He was trying to be provocative and make them ‘think the unthinkable’, the worst-case scenario.

“He was making clear that all Service personnel can be asked to sacrifice themselves. Indeed, there have been occasions when soldiers, sailors and airmen have done just that.

“He wanted crews to understand that he, too, could be faced with terrible decisions.”

In an official statement to The Sun, the MoD said: “Air Vice Marshal Walker did not say he would order his crews on suicide missions.

“He wanted them to think about how they would react faced with an extreme life or death decision — for example terrorists trying to fly an aircraft into a British city, being followed by an RAF fighter which suffers weapons failure.”

Ex-RAF hero John Nichol — shot down and captured in the first Gulf War in 1991 — said: “Being asked to commit suicide is ridiculous. I find it difficult to believe he meant it.”
 
I saw a similar article in The Times, a reputable newspaper. I believe the Sun is a tabloid, but it appears the more reputable press is covering it too. They do have the right to refuse a wrong order, don't they?

:cdn:
Hawk
 
I think you might want to take a closer look at the scenario:

It was a decision making discussion, not a policy statement.  It was in the nature of either sacrificing an air asset (and the pilot onboard) in exchange for saving a high value/heavily populated target or seriously degrading he enemy capability.

The BBC coverage is a little less sensational: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6521311.stm

"Pilots and commanders had to consider what they would do in a worst case scenario where they had a Taleban or al-Qaeda commander in their sights and found themselves out of ammunition or suffered a weapons failure. "

and the MOD explains it further at:  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/04/04/wiran504.xml

Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Aircrew's lives ARE more expendable then those of civies, and are more valuable then high value targets...that's why we wear a uniform, train like stink, put ourselves between wars desolation and the nations we serve, and do what we do.  Is it a pleasant thought?  Of course not. Is it an acceptable day to day practice?  No, that's why we wear armour, carry weapons, and train like stink.  But when all else fails, maybe that's the best, and only, way to accomplish the objective.

Do we need to be aware that worst-case scenarios might call for worst-case actions?  Absolutely.

I HOPE I'd have had the balls to sacrifice myself and an airframe to save the WTC from the second hit, knowing what we did about the first hit.  I'm not sure I would, but here in the comfort of my den, my little body for 1500 civies...I signed the form.  I took the oath.  I accepted responsibility, knowing that it was hazardous, uncomfortable, and ultimately might cause my untimely death.

Look at the Close Protection guys drills, place themselves between the shooter and the principle.  That's what they're there for.

DF
 
Sounds like the MSM and their soundbites are at it again.  The Air Vice Marshal was just asking a straight out question 'Are you willing to make the ultimate sacrifice to accomplish your mission.'  This whole situation is getting enlarged by a bunch of left-wing media who dont realize that the military has UNLIMITED LIABLILTY.  

And everyone cheered at the end of the movie 'Independance Day' when buddy flew his jet kamikazee style into the mother ship, causing it to blow up.  Hasn't Hollywood taught us anything?
 
ParaMedTech said:
I HOPE I'd have had the balls to sacrifice myself and an airframe to save the WTC from the second hit, knowing what we did about the first hit.  I'm not sure I would, but here in the comfort of my den, my little body for 1500 civies...I signed the form.  I took the oath.  I accepted responsibility, knowing that it was hazardous, uncomfortable, and ultimately might cause my untimely death.

Look at the Close Protection guys drills, place themselves between the shooter and the principle.  That's what they're there for.
DF

I never meant to imply that the members of the military should not be prepared to make that sacrifice. I should have done a further search instead of using the "Sun" as a source to start this thread.

Since we're on the subject of using planes as "kamikazes", I recall a certain TV documentary (forgot the source) where a US Washington DC Air National Guard F-16 pilot had scrambled during 9/11. Since his plane had no AAMs (or even Vulcan rounds), he had planned to ram into Flight 93 as soon as it approached the capital; fortunately the courageous sacrifice of those aboard that airliner ensured he didn't have to do that.  Does anyone remember it too and have read about it?


 
I'm guilty, too. Someone I know sums up all the press as "slavering dogs". Once again he's proven right.

:cdn:
Hawk

 
The RAF did this time and time again over 60 years ago during the Battle of Britain.

Crashing Hurricanes into Heinkles.
 
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