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That's why I would normally include timeline / cost info in the covering email / BN / whatever - s those involved in approving would have it, in writing, what the additional cost of their delay would be.
Business Class for TD Travel
- Thread starter Lumber
- Start date
- Reaction score
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I tried that with no success, but glad it works in some cases. Instead now I just look up a cost a short time out in for flights, and include in the travel request that approval delay increasing flight cost was factored into the approval paperwork. No one seems to care but at least that way I don't have to screw around with the costs being higher when it gets booked at the 11th hour.
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My Grandson, 6'3", rotated back from Latvia end Dec was refused Business Class and Premium Economy.
Happy Guy
Full Member
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There is also the possible negative perception by the public of getting news that money buying business class tickets is being "wasted" (extravagant luxury) for CAF members - normal people do not fly business class so why should any government employees be treated better. I think that federal politicians generally fly business class but I'm not sure; at least I think that Ministers do and members of the cabinet or do they fly in the challengers?
In my 37 yrs of svc, I have never flown in business class, only economy. Actually the most comfortable flt that I ever had was on a C-130 flying to South Hampton island in the Arctic. I slept on the windshield and hood of an old 5/4 Ton truck. The worst was on the old svc flts in the Boeing 707s after I finished CFOCS Chilliwack.
In my 37 yrs of svc, I have never flown in business class, only economy. Actually the most comfortable flt that I ever had was on a C-130 flying to South Hampton island in the Arctic. I slept on the windshield and hood of an old 5/4 Ton truck. The worst was on the old svc flts in the Boeing 707s after I finished CFOCS Chilliwack.
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Unfortunately, the CAF doesn't care how comfortable you are, just that you arrive on time.
For longer trips I weigh the cost of the upgrade against how miserable I'll be in cattle class. Often I pay for the upgrade to premium out of pocket, just to not suffer terrible airline seats that are too small for me (5'11).
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- Reaction score
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The best gift I ever received was from a former subordinate who went to work at an airline, annotated my file somehow, and suddenly I started routinely being given premium seats at no extra cost...
QV
Army.ca Veteran
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How hard is it to strike the business class line out of the policy? Jeepers. Everyone gets cattle class, there done. No more arguing or contravening policy.
To the TBS/CAF/DND: For any more simple solutions to complex problems, you know where to reach me.
To the TBS/CAF/DND: For any more simple solutions to complex problems, you know where to reach me.
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Many, many MPs, including some ministers, fly economy, especially short haul (less than Ottawa <> Vancouver), to demomstrate to the voters that they are just "ordinary" guys and gals. When ministers are traveling for meetings they (and staff) often choose business class to get a bit of room to spread out and get some work done. Believe it or not some ministers are, actually, very busy people withy heavy work loads - or, at least they were in the 1990s.
Blackadder1916
Army.ca Fixture
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During my svc (years and years ago) I flew business three times - all on either the outgoing or return leg of a trip. Once was an unexpected (non-cost) upgrade, the other two times were due to flight cancellations and the only seat available on another aircraft that would meet my schedule being business class. On the first of those, I had arrived at the Ottawa airport for a flight to Edmonton and all the flights that had been expected from Toronto had been cancelled. By the time I got to the front of the line, there was only one seat still available on the next (and potentially only other flight till next morning) Air Canada flight to Edmonton. As I negotiated with the AC pers about the additional cost, the individual who had been in front of me in line, and was overhearing my dilemma, informed me that he was also on the way to the same meeting in Edmonton and not to worry about getting reimbursed for the business seat - he, a LCol, would be the pers who would be approving it, it was coming off his project budget. I got the business class seat - next to a Federal cabinet minister - the LCol's seat was in economy.
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Sure. If that’s an issue, change the policy. Showing that the institution can pick and choose rules but members can’t is extremely bad leadership and management.
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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FWIW I think it is how the policy is interpreted by those who are responsible for the paperwork. It sounds as if the "system" has said "we don't care what the policy is or your pansy reasons are, you are not flying business class"
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On of the reasons I think that this hasn't been grieved is that, what would your redress even be?
The best I can come up with is that if the refused to give you a business class flight, or an overnight stay to break up your travel, then they could give you some days off equal to the number of overnight stays you could have received.
However, I would argue that there are cases where the ONLY option is business class. The entitlement reads:
"from takeoff at the first airport to landing at the last airport - is nine or more hours without an overnight stay during those hours".
So, if you had a direct flight with no stopovers that was greater than 9 hrs, then it would be impossible to have an overnight stay "during those hours", and therefore the only option is business class.
And in THAT case, if you grieved, what would be your redress?
I should've been a lawyer...
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Redress could be something like "Refuser's next performance review shall be annotated that they wilfully and deliberately disobeyed the CFTDTI".
Admin action against those who don't do their job properly should be a thing.
Admin action against those who don't do their job properly should be a thing.
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I've just started making my own itinerary and saying no to ludicrous ones with excessive number of hops, or requesting an overnight stop somewhere en route.
It annoys the heck out of me that my personal time isn't valued and considered in the 'cost comparison' were they may be quite happy for me to spend 2 days traveling somewhere instead of a 7 hour trip, and go in a day early because the more direct flights (even at economy) cost more.
Adding on a few days vacation for the first time ever, which for no good reason may cost more to fly out the following week, but that whole process is nuts as well, and still not clear how they came up with the cost comparison as it doesn't match our Section 32s for the flight cost.
All that to say is I'm tired of accomodating the CAF with unpaid hours, unecessary BS and stupid travel itineraries. If I was a contractor charging out $250-300/hr (which is the going rate for the specialization I'm in the primes are charging) they wouldn't be trying to get me to take a 19 hour 3 layover trip for something that is a 2 hour direct flight. If I'm not getting OT they can stick me in a hotel by the airport with a reasonable stop over so I'm not a zombie when I eventually get home. Which is always fun when you are semi coherent trying to get through customs.
It annoys the heck out of me that my personal time isn't valued and considered in the 'cost comparison' were they may be quite happy for me to spend 2 days traveling somewhere instead of a 7 hour trip, and go in a day early because the more direct flights (even at economy) cost more.
Adding on a few days vacation for the first time ever, which for no good reason may cost more to fly out the following week, but that whole process is nuts as well, and still not clear how they came up with the cost comparison as it doesn't match our Section 32s for the flight cost.
All that to say is I'm tired of accomodating the CAF with unpaid hours, unecessary BS and stupid travel itineraries. If I was a contractor charging out $250-300/hr (which is the going rate for the specialization I'm in the primes are charging) they wouldn't be trying to get me to take a 19 hour 3 layover trip for something that is a 2 hour direct flight. If I'm not getting OT they can stick me in a hotel by the airport with a reasonable stop over so I'm not a zombie when I eventually get home. Which is always fun when you are semi coherent trying to get through customs.
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The CAF doesn't value anyone's time because the cost of wasting people's time isn't as black and white as $/hour. One of the biggest costs is burning though members' GAF, but the people who pay for that in the end are usually not the people who burned most of it.
I'm lucky in a way, because I set my schedule, and book my own travel. I can adjust my travel dates to make it the least terrible experience policy allows, as long as my costs fall within the estimates for the travel plan. The downside is, planning travel takes up a lot of time between cost estimates and fin code/TAN approvals.
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Yeah, I'm generally in the same boat, the approval delay is pretty frustrating.
Took almost 2 months to get an international trip to participate in a NATO working group that is a core part of our job, then another month for the additional forms and approvals to actually get travel booked. So started in May, travel actually booked about two weeks ago. Glad we at least booked our own hotel because there isn't anything available now, and even then we're at different spots within a few blocks of each other.
Given how they are going on and on about how important in person collaboration is, as well as collaborating with our allies etc there is huge roadblocks in place to actually do either of those things unless you know about it way ahead of time, and we seem to be much worse off than our allies for bureaucracy. And probably spent about half the cost of the trip in actual pensionable time on the bureaucracy.
From a taxpayer perspective it's stupid, and the lack of trust on responsible travel for thousands of dollars when I'm responsible for millions of dollars in project spending as well as technical decisions on life safety equipment is too much cognitive dissonance to really wrap my head around.
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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How dare you challenge the status quo!!!
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What I find particularly frustrating is that fact that in my case all of my trips are already approved via the QTP, so it's just process slowing things down rather than approvals.
I think the travel stuff gets so much extra scrutiny simply because it's easier/more likely to be scammed, and it's easily relatable to the average voter. A person might not try to work a side deal with LM to get a few hundred thousand dollars from a multi-million dollar deal, but they might schedule their travel to put them in Las Vegas for the next Superbowl, and charge the inflated hotel prices to the Crown because that was the cheapest they could find.
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The secret t never having your TD audited is to only go to places no one would ever go unless they had to.
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