C3 Howitzer Replacement

[KevinB]

In fairness, we are supposed to be reconstituting, so attending exercises like that would be on the chopping block.

Or maybe just nothing useful to send there anyway...

 

[FJAG]

In fairness, we are supposed to be reconstituting, so attending exercises like that would be on the chopping block.

There are more and more things that I find it very difficult to be fair about. The Army's ever shrinking relevance is one of those. Cynicism has become my default attitude.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think the Brits are waking up to the idea that the key to peace is a strong military, and help is an ocean away.

The key for England is a strong Navy and RAF.

 

[FJAG]

The key for England is a strong Navy and RAF.

Same for Canada for homeland defence.

But those do not provide the credibility one needs to be seen as an effective team player in an allied security coalition where a strong unified force is the major element for a viable deterrence posture. Canada keeps forgetting that which is why our general relevance as a nation has slipped as quickly as the Army's has.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Same for Canada for homeland defence.

But those do not provide the credibility one needs to be seen as an effective team player in an allied security coalition where a strong unified force is the major element for a viable deterrence posture. Canada keeps forgetting that which is why our general relevance as a nation has slipped as quickly as the Army's has.

We can agree to disagree, how's that ?

 

[FJAG]

We can agree to disagree, how's that ?

Sure. I'm used to that.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Sure. I'm used to that.

Hey if all sang the same tune it would get old fast

 

[KevinB]

You can’t get anywhere without a Navy, but you can’t do anything once you are there without an Army.
You also need the Air Force to provide valuable hotel recommendations when you get there.

 

[daftandbarmy]

You can’t get anywhere without a Navy, but you can’t do anything once you are there without an Army.
You also need the Air Force to provide valuable hotel recommendations when you get there.

I dunno...

In WW2 our overwhelimng air superiority helped us defeat an army full of 'Burp Guns' and 88s using WW1 era bolt guns and puttees

 

[KevinB]

I dunno...

In WW2 our overwhelimng air superiority helped us defeat an army full of 'Burp Guns' and 88s using WW1 era bolt guns and puttees

The Burp gun was the PpSH-41…
Russian

 

[daftandbarmy]

The Burp gun was the PpSH-41…
Russian

Yeah, seen. My Dad used to call the MG 42 a 'burp gun' too, which he encountered in Normandy etc.

 

[Kirkhill]

Same for Canada for homeland defence.

But those do not provide the credibility one needs to be seen as an effective team player in an allied security coalition where a strong unified force is the major element for a viable deterrence posture. Canada keeps forgetting that which is why our general relevance as a nation has slipped as quickly as the Army's has.

Sorry but I can't agree with that.

In the 1950s which was more respected in Germany? The Canadian Brigade Group or 1 Canadian Air Division?

And the Navy is measured by its willingness to stand into harm's way. More BaltOps with the locals.

It (1CAD) consisted of four wings of twelve fighter squadrons located at four bases. Two bases were located in France (RCAF Station Marville (No. 1 Wing) and RCAF Station Grostenquin (No. 2 Wing)) and two were located in West Germany (RCAF Station Zweibrücken (No. 3 Wing) and RCAF Station Baden-Soellingen (No. 4 Wing)).

 

[Kirkhill]

Exercise Baltops | Royal Navy

Joining our NATO allies on exercises to improve maritime security in the Baltic Sea.

www.royalnavy.mod.uk

Baltic Protector

Nine nations come together for the first major maritime training deployment of the UK-led Joint Expeditionary Force.

www.royalnavy.mod.uk

Standing NATO Mine Counter Measures Group 1 | Royal Navy

Mine clearance exercises and maritime security patrols to support the UK's maritime commitment to NATO operations.

www.royalnavy.mod.uk

Exercise Joint Warrior | Royal Navy

Exercise Joint Warrior is the largest military exercise in Europe, bringing together the Royal Navy, the Royal Air Force and the British Army, as well as forces from other nations.

www.royalnavy.mod.uk

Canada does contribute

Ships depart Halifax on NATO mission to demine North Atlantic, Baltic Sea | Globalnews.ca

Both ships will take part in Operation Reassurance, NATO's response to Russia's recent aggression in Ukraine. Both ships will be a part of a NATO mine countermeasures group.

globalnews.ca

 

[KevinB]

Sorry but I can't agree with that.

In the 1950s which was more respected in Germany? The Canadian Brigade Group or 1 Canadian Air Division?

And the Navy is measured by its willingness to stand into harm's way. More BaltOps with the locals.

People generally respect boots on the ground. It mean’s commitment…

 

[Dana381]

People generally respect boots on the ground. It mean’s commitment…

Visible commitment at that. Navy and air force are seldom seen in news reports. TV shots of a navy ship at see could be anywhere. Aircraft on a tarmac in a neighboring country don't sell it either. People wearing the flag patrolling the streets and helping the locals sells your commitment. We don't even send DART out anymore. I remember that was all the media cared about in the 90's, every earthquake, hurricane, or disaster of any kind the media said DART so many times I got sick of hearing it.

 

[GR66]

People generally respect boots on the ground. It mean’s commitment…

While I strongly believe that the RCN and RCAF (including NORAD facilities) should be the primary focus of our defence policy and spending, I agree with @FJAG and @KevinB that "boots on the ground" are a very important political signal to both our allies and potential enemies. That effect is impossible in many situations to achieve with air or naval forces.

That being said, we may disagree that the main/only way that effect can be achieved is by placing armoured forces on the Northern European Plain. Other types of forces (including many of the artillery-type systems being discussed in this thread) could also potentially achieve a similar political effect while at the same time being more relevant to the defence of Canada.

 

[daftandbarmy]

People generally respect boots on the ground. It mean’s commitment…

And then there's Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan et al ...

Lots of commitment, questionable purposes.

 

[Rifleman62]

Other types of forces (including many of the artillery-type systems being discussed in this thread) could also potentially achieve a similar political effect while at the same time being more relevant to the defence of Canada.

And how many Artillery-type systems does Canada have? Something like 39, less 4 sent to the Ukraine. Hardly a footprint, more of a small toe print. C3 Replacement?
Second World War, Arty Regt had 24 guns.

 

[KevinB]

And then there's Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan et al ...

Lots of commitment, questionable purposes.

I meant for Defensive purposes in an Alliance partners land.

The Policy party isn’t for us.

 

[GR66]

And how many Artillery-type systems does Canada have? Something like 39, less 4 sent to the Ukraine. Hardly a footprint, more of a small toe print. C3 Replacement?
Second World War, Arty Regt had 24 guns.

Absolutely correct. Whatever type of forces we propose to commit to supporting our allies....armour, artillery, aircraft, ships, whatever...it has to be a credible force. That means that whatever force structure we decide on it must be properly and fully equipped, and that includes enough spares and munitions available to sustain the force and be an effective contributor to an allied effort.