• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

C3 Howitzer Replacement

FJAG

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
296
Points
880
The Krauss-Maffei literature describes the gun as the 155mm/L52 PzH 2000 which would make it the same system used on the basically Leopard 2 chassis and used as the prime German SP howitzer for the last two decades. The turret itself seems to have some major design changes to fit the Boxer chassis and to be fully automated.

Strikes me that this is KMW's way of recycling an older system for a new purpose to support mechanized v armoured brigades.

Interestingly I can find nothing about it being air transportable; even on an A400.

The idea that it is operated by just a driver and a gunner in the Boxer chassis is interesting. Seems to me that more and more of these guns are designed to be replenished off site and then run up, deploy, and fire with a minimal crew returning to a replenishment point once ammo is exhausted.

:cheers:
 

Cloud Cover

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Reaction score
27
Points
430
It has a longer driving range than my wife’s CRV.  Anyway if you follow Nick Drummond on Twitter, he seems to be quite well informed.  Says no outriggers, no jacks, can fire through 360, doesn’t tip over, and the turret has been reduced in size and will be further compacted if possible.  I think the LAV 6 is already larger than the Boxer....
 

FJAG

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
296
Points
880
CloudCover said:
It has a longer driving range than my wife’s CRV.  Anyway if you follow Nick Drummond on Twitter, he seems to be quite well informed.  Says no outriggers, no jacks, can fire through 360, doesn’t tip over, and the turret has been reduced in size and will be further compacted if possible.  I think the LAV 6 is already larger than the Boxer....

They're close. Basic LAV6 is 28,000 kilo while basic Boxer is 24,000 give or take. Not sure if that's for a Boxer with a RWS or an actual turreted version.

Never looked at Drummond's site before but think I might have come across an article or two from him before. I've seen him written up as one of the UK's best commentators. Quite the Boxer fan isn't he?

:cheers:
 

MilEME09

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
107
Points
680
Here would be a fairly cheap way to modernize and mobilize the Reserve Artillery
I wonder if the design of the ACSV LAV 6's could be modded into a mortor carrier for the reg force. Then do the same thing for what ever we replace the LSVW with for the PRes.
 

FJAG

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
296
Points
880
I wonder if the design of the ACSV LAV 6's could be modded into a mortor carrier for the reg force. Then do the same thing for what ever we replace the LSVW with for the PRes.
They've had a mortar mod for the Stryker for two decades now so I can't see the problem other than we didn't get them in this build of the ACSV so it's obviously not high on anyone's priority list within the Army.

🍻
 

Colin Parkinson

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
322
Points
880
It won't be a high priority until either there is a war or one of the C3 fails in spectacular way, resulting in a few deaths and maiming of the crew nearby.
 

MilEME09

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
107
Points
680
While its not impossible, with the high inspection standards for the C3 due to their age that is highly improbable
 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Myth
Reaction score
775
Points
910
While its not impossible, with the high inspection standards for the C3 due to their age that is highly improbable
Here's a dumb Infantry type question for a bunch of smart gunners and EME tech types....

I've worked out of an armoury for many years that shares space with a gunner regiment. They leave their C3s parked on the parade square, in a decorative kind of fashion.

Unlike other weapons, these guns are never hidden away in a locked and alarmed room where no one can tamper with them. Anyone can wander up and touch them at any time, and they are never guarded or fenced off with signs saying 'do not touch'.

I'm just wondering if this introduces an element of risk that is unacceptable in some way? It might not be a problem at all but I'd be properly freaked out if we left our C6s on the floor and out in the open 24/7 - even if they were chained to the wall or something ....
 

MilEME09

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
107
Points
680
Here's a dumb Infantry type question for a bunch of smart gunners and EME tech types....

I've worked out of an armoury for many years that shares space with a gunner regiment. They leave their C3s parked on the parade square, in a decorative kind of fashion.

Unlike other weapons, these guns are never hidden away in a locked and alarmed room where no one can tamper with them. Anyone can wander up and touch them at any time, and they are never guarded or fenced off with signs saying 'do not touch'.

I'm just wondering if this introduces an element of risk that is unacceptable in some way? It might not be a problem at all but I'd be properly freaked out if we left our C6s on the floor and out in the open 24/7 - even if they were chained to the wall or something ....
One thing you don't factor is the guns are their colours so they make sure to display them with pride. Pre-fire inspections are also mandatory for the C3, this can be waved by a CO but I have never seen it happen. A C3 is also a lot more work to take apart vs a C6, you need the right tools vs say a pen and a bit of knowledge for a C6.
 

FJAG

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
296
Points
880
Here's a dumb Infantry type question for a bunch of smart gunners and EME tech types....

I've worked out of an armoury for many years that shares space with a gunner regiment. They leave their C3s parked on the parade square, in a decorative kind of fashion.

Unlike other weapons, these guns are never hidden away in a locked and alarmed room where no one can tamper with them. Anyone can wander up and touch them at any time, and they are never guarded or fenced off with signs saying 'do not touch'.

I'm just wondering if this introduces an element of risk that is unacceptable in some way? It might not be a problem at all but I'd be properly freaked out if we left our C6s on the floor and out in the open 24/7 - even if they were chained to the wall or something ....
There are several key elements needed to make use of a C3 as a weapon: a panoramic telescope; a firing lock and ammunition. All three are locked away in either storerooms or at ammo dumps which are secure.

You can shoot the thing without a panoramic telescope but not without a firing lock or ammunition neither of which, unlike small arms firing pins and ammunition, is readily available to the public. In Toronto, the guns were kept in the armoury's underground garage with the vehicles. Other armouries do not have that luxury so they are kept out of the weather on the parade square. Most armouries are locked as well and although not a hundred percent secure, they are secure enough.

🍻
 

GK .Dundas

Full Member
Reaction score
1
Points
180
There are several key elements needed to make use of a C3 as a weapon: a panoramic telescope; a firing lock and ammunition. All three are locked away in either storerooms or at ammo dumps which are secure.

You can shoot the thing without a panoramic telescope but not without a firing lock or ammunition neither of which, unlike small arms firing pins and ammunition, is readily available to the public. In Toronto, the guns were kept in the armoury's underground garage with the vehicles. Other armouries do not have that luxury so they are kept out of the weather on the parade square. Most armouries are locked as well and although not a hundred percent secure, they are secure enough.

🍻
As well as a general rule of thumb its rather difficult to stuff one down the front of one's trousers and nonchalantly stroll out the door.
A kilt possibly?
But I suspect it might be a trifle awkward even so.
 

Colin Parkinson

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
322
Points
880
The biggest danger they present is someone playing with the breech while having their fingers in the chamber.
 

CBH99

Army.ca Veteran
Donor
Reaction score
100
Points
630
Here's a dumb Infantry type question for a bunch of smart gunners and EME tech types....

I've worked out of an armoury for many years that shares space with a gunner regiment. They leave their C3s parked on the parade square, in a decorative kind of fashion.

Unlike other weapons, these guns are never hidden away in a locked and alarmed room where no one can tamper with them. Anyone can wander up and touch them at any time, and they are never guarded or fenced off with signs saying 'do not touch'.

I'm just wondering if this introduces an element of risk that is unacceptable in some way? It might not be a problem at all but I'd be properly freaked out if we left our C6s on the floor and out in the open 24/7 - even if they were chained to the wall or something ....
It's not a dumb question. I've actually never really thought about that before - you make a good point!

I'd have to agree with the other posters...stealing a C3 from an armouries just isn't practical. It isn't the same as quickly disassembling a C7 and walking out with a few parts...and a stripped down C7 could have it's parts hidden in various places, and nobody would really notice.


For someone to physically break into the armoury's vehicle bay door, somehow hitch a C3 onto their vehicle, and make an escape - all the while the alarm is blaring and local police are notified - just doesn't seem likely. (Although, as we all know, crazier things have happened!)

And once someone get's their precious (outdated even for 3rd world countries) C3 to wherever they plan on taking it...then what?


I would go with it's a) the colours of the regiment, so will tend to be displayed with pride and b) the logistics of stealing & then somehow using a C3 just don't seem feasible.

Shrug
 

FJAG

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
296
Points
880
...For someone to physically break into the armoury's vehicle bay door, somehow hitch a C3 onto their vehicle, and make an escape - all the while the alarm is blaring and local police are notified - just doesn't seem likely. (Although, as we all know, crazier things have happened!)
...
Vet steals tank in San Diego

;)
 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Myth
Reaction score
775
Points
910
Do you mean that we don't have UAVs with weapons on them?
Nope. I'm pretty sure we don't but, if I'm wrong, someone here will correct me pretty fast I'm guessing.

I betcha if we painted them light blue and pitched them as 'Peacekeeping Drones' we might be able to sneak it by the Trudeau spin doctors though :)
 
Top