Cali to potentially legalize marijuana for everyone.
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That is probably because for our entire lives, we have been socialized that marijuana is not equal to alcohol and actually worse because it is illegal while alcohol is not.
In terms of level of addiction, marijuana is not that different from alcohol. Cigarettes is more addictive than either marijuana or alcohol.
Any anything one puts in one's body, everyone responds differently. Some may in occasionally heavily drink alcohol and never truly become addicted and an alcoholic, while for others just drinking a few is enough to drive to alcoholism. Same goes for marijuana. I have seen people try it for the first time or smoke it on occasion or sharing on occasion as tend to happen in a lot of parties where the stuff is included, yet never got hooked on it and have no problems. For others, seen them try it and later find out they do not go a day without smoking some. Then there is the minority risk that one's body can reject either alcohol or marijuana very aggressively due to allergy or whatever, and possibly mess them up.
Cigarettes and other drugs with high addiction levels, all those who started trying had problems to stop using them.
Beyond that, also may have to consider the life circumstances of the individuals. Those I have seen able to try or use occasionally, and never get addicted, usually those who have go lives, relatively happy, and so on while those who heavily use either or both and other marijuana and alcohol are depressed, have existing other life problems, relatively not happy, etc. Then there is socialization and peer pressure which may happen if is exposed constantly with marijuana and alcohol, and those that abuse it. So there can be social causes.
This is not a professional opinion, just my observations and own experiences of life.
In terms of level of addiction, marijuana is not that different from alcohol. Cigarettes is more addictive than either marijuana or alcohol.
Any anything one puts in one's body, everyone responds differently. Some may in occasionally heavily drink alcohol and never truly become addicted and an alcoholic, while for others just drinking a few is enough to drive to alcoholism. Same goes for marijuana. I have seen people try it for the first time or smoke it on occasion or sharing on occasion as tend to happen in a lot of parties where the stuff is included, yet never got hooked on it and have no problems. For others, seen them try it and later find out they do not go a day without smoking some. Then there is the minority risk that one's body can reject either alcohol or marijuana very aggressively due to allergy or whatever, and possibly mess them up.
Cigarettes and other drugs with high addiction levels, all those who started trying had problems to stop using them.
Beyond that, also may have to consider the life circumstances of the individuals. Those I have seen able to try or use occasionally, and never get addicted, usually those who have go lives, relatively happy, and so on while those who heavily use either or both and other marijuana and alcohol are depressed, have existing other life problems, relatively not happy, etc. Then there is socialization and peer pressure which may happen if is exposed constantly with marijuana and alcohol, and those that abuse it. So there can be social causes.
This is not a professional opinion, just my observations and own experiences of life.
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mellian said:
Of course your personal experience may deem that cigarettes are more addictive (I'm a smoker - fair warning), but what you fail to point out, while denoting the evils of cigarettes and the "relative" (apparently only because it's 'illegal') unevilness of weed ... is that cigarettes do not (in my experience having dealt with both drug and alcohol problems in my subordinates) affect the mental capacity of someone like weed and alcohol do.
There's a reason we have a regulation that states zero tolerance towards weed, and no alcohol 12 hours prior to work - because of the mental incapcitation that they (and NOT cigarettes) cause ... and that's a very different and important factor in enabling us to get our jobs done - irregardless of which one of the three may be more addictive than the other.
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True, cigarettes have less short term mental affects in comparison to marijuana and alcohol, but they are still more addictive.
In terms of mental affects, on average, marijuana is not that different from alcohol. Actually, I consider those intoxicated on alcohol more of a problem than those high on marijuana. The latter tends to make people more relaxed, slow, and generally lazier while the former can make someone more hyper, numbing of sensations which create the effect of feeling of being invincible and do more, blurriness, and gradually having trouble maintaining their balance.
I have am not pro marijuana, just that if in general, marijuana should be treated in the same level as alcohol. Either legalized and regulated, or ban alcohol as well both in the CF and society in general.
Marijuana is so prevalent now, that it makes less sense trying to continue making it illegal (in same way does not make sense to ban alcohol ala prohibition years have shown) and not regulating. Not just in cities, but rural areas as well. I have been exposed to the stuff wherever I go, and know nearly as many people that smoke it as those who drink alcohol, from when I first encountered it in junior high to now, friends and family, from all over the place. I can walk down the street and smell wif of it near schools, government, and even the police station.
In terms of mental affects, on average, marijuana is not that different from alcohol. Actually, I consider those intoxicated on alcohol more of a problem than those high on marijuana. The latter tends to make people more relaxed, slow, and generally lazier while the former can make someone more hyper, numbing of sensations which create the effect of feeling of being invincible and do more, blurriness, and gradually having trouble maintaining their balance.
I have am not pro marijuana, just that if in general, marijuana should be treated in the same level as alcohol. Either legalized and regulated, or ban alcohol as well both in the CF and society in general.
Marijuana is so prevalent now, that it makes less sense trying to continue making it illegal (in same way does not make sense to ban alcohol ala prohibition years have shown) and not regulating. Not just in cities, but rural areas as well. I have been exposed to the stuff wherever I go, and know nearly as many people that smoke it as those who drink alcohol, from when I first encountered it in junior high to now, friends and family, from all over the place. I can walk down the street and smell wif of it near schools, government, and even the police station.
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mellian said:
Which is a moot point given that we're discussing WHY they affect the ability of someone to do their job.
Geez, that's exactly what I need when the bullets start flying unannounced --- someone mellower, slow, relaxed and lazy. Irregardless, there's a reason alcohol is prohibited 12 hours prior to work and zero tolerance in most theatre AORs these days.
Most people speed too, should we make that legal?
You do realize of course, that as (if/when) a member of the CF, your group of weed-smoking friends and days on the protest line will have to end yes? This may also carry with it the ability to affect you "passing/maintaining a security screening". It will be against CF regulations for you to be present when illegal activity is occuring ... and, as a CF member you are actually obligated to report it. Just thought you should know that. The CF is, for a reason (a legally "bonified reason" at that), a WHOLE different lifestyle than that which you have thus far experienced.
It ain't just a job - it's a lifestyle.
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Just out of curiosity, suppose we legalize marijuana.
What do all the various people currently running grow ops do ?
Do they:
A) Say, "aw shucks" and shut their operations down ?
B) Become legitimate, pot-selling business people (assuming that option is open to them) and deal with the paperwork, taxes, and various other headaches and hassle that other small business owners are put through ?
or
C) Simply start pushing their product more to people who would still not be able to purchase pot legally ?
Like underage kids for example.
What do all the various people currently running grow ops do ?
Do they:
A) Say, "aw shucks" and shut their operations down ?
B) Become legitimate, pot-selling business people (assuming that option is open to them) and deal with the paperwork, taxes, and various other headaches and hassle that other small business owners are put through ?
or
C) Simply start pushing their product more to people who would still not be able to purchase pot legally ?
Like underage kids for example.
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ArmyVern said:
What a beautiful piece of rhetoric.
Each law or regulation is set in place for a specific reason. Usually to prevent the public from harm. In the case of speeding the best way to prevent the public from harm is decided to be placing a limit on speed and then to fine people accordingly when they breach the limit.
In the case of cannabis the law was made without any comprhensive research and the fines, sentances of the day do not reflect the potential harm to our society.
As i've already posted the Canadian Senate has already extensively researched the topic and came to the scientific solution that marijuana should be legalized, taxed and regulated to reduce the amount of harm caused by the substance to the Canadian people.
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AFAIK, it's legal in Holland to smoke pot. Are they stupidier/less competent people than us?
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SupersonicMax said:
Are they smoking it while at work? Do they show up to work stoned? Shall we have your co-pilot ensure he smokes a bit of weed up there next time? You volunteering as the guinea pig?
Were talking about work. Nice spin on it though. :
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silverbirdtank said:
Rhetoric only because it highlights your consistent ability to scream "lack of research" ... I'm quite sure that preventing a guy from driving stoned is also in the public interest. Or from working stoned.
You should delve further in those senate studies ...
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ArmyVern said:Are they smoking it while at work? Do they show up to work stoned? Shall we have your co-pilot ensure he smokes a bit of weed up there next time? You volunteering as the guinea pig?
Were talking about work. Nice spin on it though. :
Are people drinking while at work? Do they show up to work drunk?
I'm sure rules are in place in Holland that prevent people from smoking a joint or showing up stoned.
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You post your opinion, I post fact.
I have never seen a study out of Holland or anywhere that associated legalization/decriminalization with increased cases of driving under the influence or even increased use at all.
In fact,
2.Comparing Important Drug and Violence Indicators
Social Indicator Comparison Year USA Netherlands
Lifetime prevalence of marijuana use (ages 12+) 2001 36.9% 1 17.0% 2
Past month prevalence of marijuana use (ages 12+) 2001 5.4% 1 3.0% 2
Lifetime prevalence of heroin use (ages 12+) 2001 1.4% 1 0.4% 2
Incarceration Rate per 100,000 population 2002 701 3 100 4
Per capita spending on criminal justice system (in Euros) 1998 €379 5 €223 5
Homicide rate per 100,000 population Average 1999-2001 5.56 6 1.51 6
Source: 1: US Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, National Household Survey on Drug Abuse: Volume I. Summary of National Findings (Washington, DC: HHS, August 2002), p. 109, Table H.1.
2: Trimbos Institute, "Report to the EMCDDA by the Reitox National Focal Point, The Netherlands Drug Situation 2002" (Lisboa, Portugal: European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction, Nov. 2002), p. 28, Table 2.1.
3: Walmsley, Roy, "World Prison Population List (fifth edition) (London, England: Research, Development and Statistics Directorate of the Home Office), Dec. 2003, p. 3, Table 2.
4: Walmsley, Roy, "World Prison Population List (fifth edition) (London, England: Research, Development and Statistics Directorate of the Home Office), Dec. 2003, p. 5, Table 4.
5: van Dijk, Frans & Jaap de Waard, "Legal infrastructure of the Netherlands in international perspective: Crime control" (Netherlands: Ministry of Justice, June 2000), p. 9, Table S.13.
6: Barclay, Gordon, Cynthia Tavares, Sally Kenny, Arsalaan Siddique & Emma Wilby, "International comparisons of criminal justice statistics 2001," Issue 12/03 (London, England: Home Office Research, Development & Statistics Directorate, October 2003), p. 10, Table 1.1.
You tell me how keeping marijuana illegal prevents people from driving and working high?
I'm just telling you, consistantly that it is proven more so every day that it is safer legal than illegal for all Canadian citizens and the citizens of California.
You can keep telling me your personal feelings, thoughts and rhetoric but i'm not responding to any more whims because thruthfully all your reservations on the subject can be compromised by simple google searches or about 15-20 minutes research into the topic at hand.
I actually used to think marijuana was a pretty hurtfull thing that was wrecking the lives of a lot of people I knew and was definately against a change in laws but I decided one day when discussing it with another person to play advocate for the other side and found out I was wrong about a lot of things.
I have never seen a study out of Holland or anywhere that associated legalization/decriminalization with increased cases of driving under the influence or even increased use at all.
In fact,
2.Comparing Important Drug and Violence Indicators
Social Indicator Comparison Year USA Netherlands
Lifetime prevalence of marijuana use (ages 12+) 2001 36.9% 1 17.0% 2
Past month prevalence of marijuana use (ages 12+) 2001 5.4% 1 3.0% 2
Lifetime prevalence of heroin use (ages 12+) 2001 1.4% 1 0.4% 2
Incarceration Rate per 100,000 population 2002 701 3 100 4
Per capita spending on criminal justice system (in Euros) 1998 €379 5 €223 5
Homicide rate per 100,000 population Average 1999-2001 5.56 6 1.51 6
Source: 1: US Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, National Household Survey on Drug Abuse: Volume I. Summary of National Findings (Washington, DC: HHS, August 2002), p. 109, Table H.1.
2: Trimbos Institute, "Report to the EMCDDA by the Reitox National Focal Point, The Netherlands Drug Situation 2002" (Lisboa, Portugal: European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction, Nov. 2002), p. 28, Table 2.1.
3: Walmsley, Roy, "World Prison Population List (fifth edition) (London, England: Research, Development and Statistics Directorate of the Home Office), Dec. 2003, p. 3, Table 2.
4: Walmsley, Roy, "World Prison Population List (fifth edition) (London, England: Research, Development and Statistics Directorate of the Home Office), Dec. 2003, p. 5, Table 4.
5: van Dijk, Frans & Jaap de Waard, "Legal infrastructure of the Netherlands in international perspective: Crime control" (Netherlands: Ministry of Justice, June 2000), p. 9, Table S.13.
6: Barclay, Gordon, Cynthia Tavares, Sally Kenny, Arsalaan Siddique & Emma Wilby, "International comparisons of criminal justice statistics 2001," Issue 12/03 (London, England: Home Office Research, Development & Statistics Directorate, October 2003), p. 10, Table 1.1.
You tell me how keeping marijuana illegal prevents people from driving and working high?
I'm just telling you, consistantly that it is proven more so every day that it is safer legal than illegal for all Canadian citizens and the citizens of California.
You can keep telling me your personal feelings, thoughts and rhetoric but i'm not responding to any more whims because thruthfully all your reservations on the subject can be compromised by simple google searches or about 15-20 minutes research into the topic at hand.
I actually used to think marijuana was a pretty hurtfull thing that was wrecking the lives of a lot of people I knew and was definately against a change in laws but I decided one day when discussing it with another person to play advocate for the other side and found out I was wrong about a lot of things.
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Pot, like alcohol, both drugs, obviously should be used in a responsible manner.
Otherwise I consider it less harmful than alcohol.
Ya it's OK to get bombed, smashed, tie one on, hammered, loaded, pissed, plastered, s**t-faced, or wasted just don't get high.
Alcohol is a drug society has become comfortable and familiar with.
It would be interesting if pot had come first and we could have a debate over the harm of legalizing alcohol.
Otherwise I consider it less harmful than alcohol.
Ya it's OK to get bombed, smashed, tie one on, hammered, loaded, pissed, plastered, s**t-faced, or wasted just don't get high.
Alcohol is a drug society has become comfortable and familiar with.
It would be interesting if pot had come first and we could have a debate over the harm of legalizing alcohol.
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look at what you are going after, just grasping now aren't we?
please, we have been over this in this thread. I didn't say majority Canadians, I was talking about Californians.
Even if I had, it would be a mistake and it further proves my earlier point that people hardly ever want to talk using facts. Just jump on one sentance they don't agree with and then pat themselves on the back because now they can walk away disregarding all the information presented them.
Have a swell night my friend, you obviously taken enough blasphemy for one sitting.
please, we have been over this in this thread. I didn't say majority Canadians, I was talking about Californians.
Even if I had, it would be a mistake and it further proves my earlier point that people hardly ever want to talk using facts. Just jump on one sentance they don't agree with and then pat themselves on the back because now they can walk away disregarding all the information presented them.
Have a swell night my friend, you obviously taken enough blasphemy for one sitting.
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Angus Reid did some study and polled the population several times:
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/30688/canadian_majority_would_legalize_marijuana/
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/30688/canadian_majority_would_legalize_marijuana/
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In 21 years of dealing with the skidmarks on the highway of life I can tell you that so far "Jungle" is the only person in this thread that has made a post that reflects the harsh realities of the drug curve...........
That's niether a study, a quote, a poll nor "scientific test",....thats just what I hear/see over and over and over and....
Why is it we do this same thread every 3 months?
That's niether a study, a quote, a poll nor "scientific test",....thats just what I hear/see over and over and over and....
Why is it we do this same thread every 3 months?
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SupersonicMax said:
Got a better ref than that? With a given error margine rating of:
Given that their "in favour of majority" was only 53% ... that could very well drop down to an "actual" 49.9% by their own admission. Not exactly a study which I would deem to actually provide a factual basis for their being "a mjority" in favour of legalization.
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