Canada doesn’t matter to the rest of the world - and it’s our own fault

[FJAG]

First off we dont need another Reserve V Reg Force or Reserve Restructure thread. Having said that now, lets dive in

I think your bias of favoring the Army and Reserve world is showing.

I think just about every thread should have a restructure element that should look at our ResF to RegF ratio and capability. Avoiding the question has gotten the CAF (especially the army) where it is today.

I unabashedly have a bias. It's not so much that I "favour" the reserve and the army but that I consider those to be the organizations most requiring change in order to become more economical and capable. IMHO the Navy needs that too to a lesser extent and the RCAF a little bit vis-a-vis aviation.

The USAF Res and Air Guard beg to differ, I am zero familiarity with the Naval Reserve down here.

The USN reserve works on an individual reservist basis and not in formed units like the USAF or US Army.

 

[FJAG]

I would like to know what percentage of the USAFR and ANG are “full time reservists” vice part-timers.

There are several full-time elements to the US reserve components. This includes "Active Guard and Reserve (AGR)" members, civilians and technicians. As far as the army is concerned, roughly 9% of the ARNG and USAR are on "active guard" status. It varies for the other components.

There is a Congressional Review Service paper on the subject which provides considerable detail on the subject as of 2021.

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/RL/RL30802

Between Table 1 on page 3 and Table 2 on page 5 you can work out the ratios for all of the services.

The USAFR and ANG have approximately 200,000 members and around 27,000 are on AGR status. In addition there are another 30,000 full-time technicians and civilians in their support.

IMHO, the US use of full-time AGR, technicians and civilians is what makes the reserve components down there a viable organization. On the principle of "shamelessly copy anything that works" it is a system we should seriously explore and adapt to our own circumstances.

 

[JLB50]

Tasha Kheiriddin: Liberals denigrate Canada, no wonder the military can't recruit

Young people want to work for organizations with purpose

nationalpost.com

(Paywall may apply)

I wonder if Jason will ever have a Day (or a Year) of Reconciliation for the Canadian Armed Forces. Mind you, the downward recruitment slide began long before he became PM. Even if the budget were to increase to 2%, a lot of otherwise good prospects would never want to enlist because it’s just not cool to do one’s patriotic duty.

A while back I mentioned in some other thread how a friend of mine was taking a flight to Athens to go on vacation. Sitting next to him was another guy (Canadian born) who said he was going to Greece to “serve his country” in the Greek army. Hey, I have some Greek blood in me, but Greece is not my country, never was and never will be despite it having a wonderful heritage. Thanks in large part to our policy of multiculturalism huge numbers of Canadians have little loyalty to this country.

Maybe we just need to sit around a campfire and sing Kumbaya, and everything will turn out rosy.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The USAF Res and Air Guard beg to differ, I am zero familiarity with the Naval Reserve down here.

From Google:

 

[Halifax Tar]

The USN reserve works on an individual reservist basis and not in formed units like the USAF or US Army.

From Google:

 

[dimsum]

IMHO, the US use of full-time AGR, technicians and civilians is what makes the reserve components down there a viable organization. On the principle of "shamelessly copy anything that works" it is a system we should seriously explore and adapt to our own circumstances.

…isn’t that just the “Class B shuffle”, including DND civilians?

 

[FJAG]

From Google:

View attachment 83418

Yes there are vessels assigned to the US Navy reserve fleet but they are mothballed. USN reserve personnel are not assigned as crews to specific vessels until they are mobilized and assigned to ships or shore installations. The ships and the personnel are individual resources to be mobilized and crewed as required unlike the Army and Air Force reserve elements.

…isn’t that just the “Class B shuffle”, including DND civilians?

As far as the AGR is concerned, it's not far off the Class B service model other than, unlike Canada, most of the AGR serves in NG and ARes units and formations. You have to take as a given that in the ARNG you have formations up to the division level that are fully equipped and manned by guardsmen. The full-timers are assigned to maintain the training and equipment of their part-time force assisted by the technician and civilian force and a very few active army types.

The USAF has a more complex and more integrated approach as between their active units and AirNG and Air Res units.

In Canada most of the Class Bs fulfill admin functions - mostly in Ottawa - which IMHO reflects the fact that we are more concerned with staffing paper than properly organizing, equipping and training our reservists as mobilizable entities.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Tasha Kheiriddin: Liberals denigrate Canada, no wonder the military can't recruit

Young people want to work for organizations with purpose

nationalpost.com

A while back I mentioned in some other thread how a friend of mine was taking a flight to Athens to go on vacation. Sitting next to him was another guy (Canadian born) who said he was going to Greece to “serve his country” in the Greek army. Hey, I have some Greek blood in me, but Greece is not my country, never was and never will be despite it having a wonderful heritage. Thanks in large part to our policy of multiculturalism huge numbers of Canadians have little loyalty to this country.

If you were born in country X (Italy/Greece/France/etc) and immigrated you could still be called up for service in that countries military. If you didn't respond, you were put on a blacklist and if you every set foot in said country again you could be arrested.

And when I was stationed in Naples, Italy ('99-'03) I met several American citizens (and one Canadian) who had got their callup papers for the Italian military and had returned to Italy to do their military service.

 

[JLB50]

If you were born in country X (Italy/Greece/France/etc) and immigrated you could still be called up for service in that countries military. If you didn't respond, you were put on a blacklist and if you every set foot in said country again you could be arrested.

And when I was stationed in Naples, Italy ('99-'03) I met several American citizens (and one Canadian) who had got their callup papers for the Italian military and had returned to Italy to do their military service.

Nevertheless, he still referred to Greece as “his country”. Imagine if Canada got into a serious war…I wonder how many men (and women) would be willing to fight for Canada. I know there are many here not in favour of any form of conscription and prefer a fully professional army but I think even a year of national service could be beneficial.

Conscription has allowed Switzerland, for example, to maintain an army of nearly 150,000. Not bad for a country of fewer than 9 million people. And evidently, the Swiss electorate (73%) overwhelmingly prefers conscription for its men following a fairly recent referendum. Yes, I know, Quebec…Quebec…Quebec…notwithstanding.

 

[dimsum]

Nevertheless, he still referred to Greece as “his country”. Imagine if Canada got into a serious war…I wonder how many men (and women) would be willing to fight for Canada.

I think Afghanistan answered that question.

 

[Navy_Pete]

From the looks of the pending budget restrictions next year, things are going to be brutal for the Navy. Even if we had the people to run the in service projects to just replace obsolete things to maintain current capabilities, we are short hundreds of millions on the fleet support side of things. The known work and cost for the CPF dockings is staggering and the cupboards are bare.

Curious to see what will happen, but if the GoC doesn't put up going to be ugly in the very near future. Even if they do, things are grim from the crewing side of things but then at least there won't be structural paint below the waterlines and pipes with multiple layers of patch kits. May be a good forcing function though to get the RCN to do less with less though and actually properly maintain and crew some ships and boats, vice run the institution into the ground by trying to do everything with nothing.

Glad I did a lot of part buying in 2022/2023 to fill some cupboards, if only it could actually get put on shelves without working around DRMIS supply changes.

 

[OldSolduer]

Nevertheless, he still referred to Greece as “his country”. Imagine if Canada got into a serious war…I wonder how many men (and women) would be willing to fight for Canada. I know there are many here not in favour of any form of conscription and prefer a fully professional army but I think even a year of national service could be beneficial.

I have had co workers born and raised in Canada refer to their heritage country as "the old country" and how they went to visit it. I wanted to say "its not your country, Canada is your country" BUT diplomacy etc - I now refer to myself as Canadian - period. No Hyphens here.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I have had co workers born and raised in Canada refer to their heritage country as "the old country" and how they went to visit it. I wanted to say "its not your country, Canada is your country" BUT diplomacy etc - I now refer to myself as Canadian - period. No Hyphens here.

My family have been in Canada for 70 years now. 70 years ago, they weren't Canadians. They were WOPs, Guineas, Guidos, etc. They were only considered "white" (I)talian-Canadians 50 years ago when Multiculturalism first started; but mainly because there were non-white immigrants coming in from South West Asia, Africa, and the Carribean, and they needed room in the "not a Canadian" box.

Even 17 years ago at my enrollment ceremony, I was asked to note where I was from for the MC. Apparently "Scarborough, Ontario" was not the answer they were looking for and "no...where are you REALLY from?" was a suitable question to ask someone attesting loyalty to Crown and Country.

So yes, we wonder why the "hyphens" identify more as the first part than the final part. That was a label given by Canadians firstly; not as a badge of honour, but as a classification of "non WASP and non-Franco Catholic."

When you are told, even subliminally, that the non-hyphenate status isn't an achievement you can unlock; most no longer bother. You embrace the label and make it your own. Knowing that "label" is still going to follow you into the CAF is less and less appealing, as your name tape can cause those uncomfortable questions like "where are you REALLY from?"

 

[lenaitch]

Meh. When asked or polled, I will reference my heritage or 'hyphenatedness' (Scot, both sides). I figure many others citizens and being encouraged to own and celebrate their cultural heritage, why not me. Heck, in some cases, we are being asked to celebrate other people's cultures.

My step mother was an English war bride and she said that, back home when somebody asked you that it meant what county; although she could usually tell just from their accent.

where are you REALLY from?

Ask that to a visible minority and it can get really awkward. I asked a Black colleague I had just met 'where are you from?' She said 'what do you mean' in a tone that made me instantly realize my question could be taken several ways. I said 'well, I'm from North York' and her demeanor softened. I suppose we have to sometimes walk in their shoes.

 

[stoker dave]

May be a good forcing function though to get the RCN to do less with less

<submarines enter..... then exit the chat>

 

[Halifax Tar]

Yes there are vessels assigned to the US Navy reserve fleet but they are mothballed. USN reserve personnel are not assigned as crews to specific vessels until they are mobilized and assigned to ships or shore installations. The ships and the personnel are individual resources to be mobilized and crewed as required unlike the Army and Air Force reserve elements.

My apologies, I wasn't trying debate you, just give you some numbers.

 

[FSTO]

Ask that to a visible minority and it can get really awkward. I asked a Black colleague I had just met 'where are you from?' She said 'what do you mean' in a tone that made me instantly realize my question could be taken several ways. I said 'well, I'm from North York' and her demeanor softened. I suppose we have to sometimes walk in their shoes.

I ask "What part of Canada are you from". That appears to me an opening for the person to tell you their family story,

 

[ueo]

$18B can get you a lot of base housing in areas of high COL. That's just for one year. You could probably replace each PMQ over 50 years old plus build another.

Just finished demo on about 1000 units in Borden. Understand these were WW2 vintage, BUT wouldn't one consider a phased program- doze 10 rebuild maybe 5 ?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Just finished demo on about 1000 units in Borden. Understand these were WW2 vintage, BUT wouldn't one consider a phased program- doze 10 rebuild maybe 5 ?

But that just delays the 'pre-election announceables'

 

[FSTO]

Just finished demo on about 1000 units in Borden. Understand these were WW2 vintage, BUT wouldn't one consider a phased program- doze 10 rebuild maybe 5 ?

Any salvage of the wood? Or was all sent to the landfills?