Canada military making mess of recruitment-report

[tempest77]

Canada military making mess of recruitment-report
Tue 16 May 2006 2:46 PM ET
OTTAWA, May 16 (Reuters) - Canada's military is doing such a poor job of recruiting and retaining new members that the Conservative government will have serious problems meeting its promise to significantly boost the armed forces, an official probe indicated on Tuesday.

The findings by Auditor-General Sheila Fraser underscore the challenges that face the Conservatives, who plan to extend the country's 2,300-troop mission to Afghanistan by two years to 2009 and are under domestic pressure to send soldiers to the Darfur region of Sudan.

Last year, the former Liberal government said it would expand the armed forces by 5,000 soldiers to 67,000 over five years. The Liberals lost the Jan. 23 election to the Conservatives, who vowed to boost the total to 75,000.

This compares with the U.S., which has about 1.8 million active service personnel.

Fraser -- who first raised the alarm about Canada's recruitment problems in 2002 -- said the defense ministry hasn't made enough progress since then.

"The recruiting and attrition problems that remain are jeopardizing the success of the Canadian Forces' planned expansion," she wrote.

"Faced with a changing Canadian demographic profile, a low interest among Canadian youth in joining the military, and increasing military operational demands, the current recruiting system is not supporting the needs of the Canadian Forces."

The armed forces recruited a total of 20,000 people from 2002 to 2005 but the attrition rate was such that it only increased its overall trained effective strength by 700 during the period.

"The navy, army and air force ... are experiencing uneven, persistent shortages in almost half their 69 specific occupations," wrote Fraser, saying the increased age of the armed forces meant the attrition rate would increase.

Fraser said the armed forces were not trying hard enough to recruit from minorities or Canada's aboriginal population.

The costs of attrition aren't small, with about 35 percent of army combat engineers leaving by the end of the fourth year of training, at a total expense of about C$220,000 ($200,000) per soldier.

And more than 70 percent of military physicians quit within 10 years of joining the forces, during which time the defense ministry had subsidized five years' of their education. ($1=$1.11 Canadian)

Source;

http://today.reuters.com/News/CrisesArticle.aspx?storyId=N16428055

 

[Bobbyoreo]

"Fraser said the armed forces were not trying hard enough to recruit from minorities or Canada's aboriginal population."

I find this statement BS as all the posters focus on Aboriginal, minorities and woman in the forces. They send countless amounts of recruiters around the country and up to different reservse.

Why cant they just say these people just dont wish to join. Its just that easy. You can't make people join.

Sorry I just get mad when I read things.

Rant done

 

[Dank]

Tell them to call me then!

Im still waiting for an interview!

 

[dardt]

"This compares with the U.S., which has about 1.8 million active service personnel."

- Another pointless comparison to the US Military by our media.

- Sure the Forces need to do better but years and years of neglect / cuts aren't going to be fixed overnight. Canadians also need to take a greater interest in their military and what THEIR government is doing abroad. It seems to be happening somewhat lately, at least that's the impression. Hopefully this will result in a greater number of people considering the armed forces as a career.

Overly optimistic ? I hope not.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Well, I tried to get back in the military and the officer who interviewed me said a few things to me that I did not appreciate hearing.  I am new here so I won't post what he said, but I wasn't impressed. Maybe they should focus on the people who do want to join eh?

 

[Jake]

A decent recruiting commercial would help.  :

 

[munky99999]

I wonder how many roughly never make it because they aren't fit enough for the job?

Here's an idea. Might be silly. But why not instead of kicking people out because they arent fit enough or dont even get accepted because they cant pass the physical test.

Have it so. If you can pass all the other stuff. But arent fit enough. you have to goto a pre-basic training course. Which is X amount long and is entirely meant to get you in shape; and thats all the course focuses on.

I do believe i read somewhere on her a recruiter had a girl who passed everything. But couldnt do enough push-ups. so they sent her packing. But if you sent her to a course to get her in shape. you'd have that 1 more recruit.

Wacky idea? not worth the effort? i dunno. Seems it would be able to increase the income and thats the idea they want.

Flatspin i think that is a little to optimistic. Average person just wont care what the government is doing, regardless of intentions.

 

[Bullit]

Now they don't even let you finished everything on the 1st week you do PT-Test and if you fail the run your out. Here a quote from the '' CF EXPRES TEST Evaluation Process''
quote>a.Failure of the VO2 max(shuttle run) of the first test of PC 103  will result in a release of the CF<enquote

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Good points guys.  Even the U.S. military has "remedial" fitness training courses, etc.  They don't kick you out right away.  Can we afford to be stricter than them? I don't think so.

 

[George Wallace]

I wonder how many roughly never make it because they aren't fit enough for the job?

Here's an idea. Might be silly. But why not instead of kicking people out because they arent fit enough or dont even get accepted because they cant pass the physical test.
Have it so. If you can pass all the other stuff. But arent fit enough. you have to goto a pre-basic training course. Which is X amount long and is entirely meant to get you in shape; and thats all the course focuses on.
I do believe i read somewhere on her a recruiter had a girl who passed everything. But couldnt do enough push-ups. so they sent her packing. But if you sent her to a course to get her in shape. you'd have that 1 more recruit.
Wacky idea? not worth the effort? i dunno. Seems it would be able to increase the income and thats the idea they want.

It sounds like you are recommending that the Government of Canada should open up "Fat Camps" and pay people to attend, in the hopes that they can pass the CF Recruiting Physical Fitness tests.  Is this a NDP proposal for a new form of Welfare?

Yes the US Military has remedial PT for its soldiers.  So does the Canadian Forces.  It is for those soldiers who are already Trained (the Government has spent billions to train them in Trades to fill positions in the Forces.), but who have let their physical fitness levels drop to unacceptable levels.  The Government doesn't like to waste its' money (at least not on the members of the CF.).  The Government does not pay, feed or house people who can not meet the physical fitness requirements, in their attempts to meet those requirements to join.  Those people will have to take the initiative to prepare themselves for a job in the CF, just as they would have to prepare for any job in any other organization.  The exception being, you have to be fit to be in the CF.

(PS.  I ran Spell Check and was held up by all the mistakes in your post.  ;D)

 

[aluc]

If you can't motivate yourself to get in shape to meet the CFs  physical fitness standards than maybe employment should be sought elsewhere. No disrespect intended, but c'mon 19 pushups and situps, plus a 2.5 km run. Train harder people! If you want to be part of the team you have to take it seriously enough to get into shape on your own. 

 

[WannaBeFlyer]

It sounds like you are recommending that the Government of Canada should open up "Fat Camps" and pay people to attend, in the hopes that they can pass the CF Recruiting Physical Fitness tests....Those people will have to take the initiative to prepare themselves for a job in the CF, just as they would have to prepare for any job in any other organization.  The exception being, you have to be fit to be in the CF.

Well said.

No disrespect intended, but c'mon 19 pushups and situps, plus a 2.5 km run. Train harder people!

Exactly.

In my opinion, you know what the requirements are when you pick up your package. If you can't meet those requirements and you really want to do the job, then you work at meeting them and apply. Better yet, if you went to the CFRC, you probably were informed by a Recruiter about how long the process generally takes. (At least I was.) You know then that you will have more than enough time to get yourself into shape if you already aren't. The minimum requirements are not outrageous. In fact, you should set your goals higher than the minimums.

I can just imagine the headlines now - "Canadian Forces opens fat camp in hopes of meeting numbers".  :

 

[hoosierdaddy]

;D  You guys are right.  The PT requirements aren't too difficult, although I have gotten to where I could do the distance but still have to get within the time limit.  I was just saying that the U.S. military has remedial fitness training but I failed to remember that it is indeed, for those who are already in the military.

I guess that is why it is a good idea to practice above the minimum.  If you practice above the minimum you should not fail your fitness test by falling one push up short.

 

[munky99999]

It sounds like you are recommending that the Government of Canada should open up "Fat Camps" and pay people to attend, in the hopes that they can pass the CF Recruiting Physical Fitness tests.  Is this a NDP proposal for a new form of Welfare?

Who says pay them? I say you give them the basic of basic necessities. Food-Bed etc. Not pay them.

yes i make lots of spelling mistakes. Not really a big concern to me. If i can get my point across its good enough for an anonymous forum.

The minimum requirements are not outrageous.

I never really said they were. But some people are outrageously out of shape. But could be very good candidates for recruitment otherwise. So if you were to give them the option. Either go home and get in shape on your own. Which they should have already done, but haven't. Or you could go to a sort of camp to get you in shape, one that they don't get payed for nor will find easy. One that you basically workout through the whole day.

Honestly. I don't really do that much workout. I jog with the dog(as long as it isn't raining. Its been raining here for the last week) and lift dumbells. In addition to situps and pushups. I don't go and push myself. And without anything. I passed the self-physical-test. Though i struggled though pushups. I'm pushing myself allot last week or so. So when the physical test comes it wont be a problem at all.

I'm not saying change the minimums. Just have it so there is a get-in-shape course. One that doesn't pay. Its virtually volunteer.

 

[aluc]

Munky99999,
That sounds more like a national exercise program to me. Sign me up......who needs a gym membership. They will also provide a proper nutritional programme too......  Free exercise equipment, food, board, personal trainers.  Who needs national daycare...I like this idea better.  ;D

 

[govenor_mac]

My son did not pass the running in the endurance test ( 1st week in). He had strep throat and major bliststers on his heels. (4.5 out of 6) Doesn't matter the result was he didn't pass. The 16 who didn't pass were put in pat platoon to be sent home. They are now doing 'Remedial' training, much to my sons delight. A good way to pass the time of day.Also he is glad for the chance to better himself. This is at Borden by the way. Apparently they have excellent PO's on pat platoon and they try to keep them busy.

 

[munky99999]

Munky99999,
That sounds more like a national exercise program to me. Sign me up......who needs a gym membership. They will also provide a proper nutritional programme too......  Free exercise equipment, food, board, personal trainers.  Who needs national daycare...I like this idea better.  ;D

Hey good point. But then again. You could just make it mandatory to going to basic training afterwards. That would at least weed-out anyone who's trying to use the system.