Canada sets up new military spy unit

[McG]

Only for a few more months.

 

[armyvern]

Only for a few more months.

Perfect.

CT to ResF, spark up our new spy directorate placing him in charge ...

Canada would rule the world!!  ;D

 

[George Wallace]

He'd be the CDS ... not INT.

>

Are you sure?  Isn't that "the 1st Newfoundland Tanks"?  Either way, he could still do HUMINT.

 

[armyvern]

Are you sure?  Isn't that "the 1st Newfoundland Tanks"?  Either way, he could still do HUMINT.

We're talking after a CT George. 

Perhaps though, as a red herring, we should toss out the name of the new spy unit ... and label it "the 1st Newfoundland Tanks" ... who ever suspect it??

 

[stegner]

Since when does one need a Masters Degree to be fluent in several languages? Or civilian credentials?

Never said this.  What languages does your friend speak? 

I see you are the type who thinks that a piece of paper hanging on the wall makes someone very special.  Funny thing about a lot of those people; they really don't have two clues about life in the real world.  They have proven themselves to be able to learn from books, but have no real life experience.  Can I ask you how many different things taught in academia as theory, are really practical in real life?  Communism, for instance, is a brilliant concept.  Totally impractical and unworkable in real life.

Same goes for Intelligence and HUMINT.  Education has nothing to do with what qualifications are really needed.  Strong moral and ethical standards and unbiased honesty are more important.  I would almost say that a Newfoundlander from 2 RCR with the "gift of gab" would make a far better HUMINT operator than some multi-Degree holding wannabe officer from some Ivory Tower.

I am afraid that your perspective of academia is skewed.  Sure communism is still big at places like York, but elsewhere not so much.  Sure a 2 RCR with a "the gift for gab" would be a good choice provided that he understood the cultural and historical surroundings.  His gift for gab would be useless if he didn't understand those as he could fast find himself in trouble.  What provides the basis for understanding the cultural and historical surroundings: education. 

I am not trying to say that academics are better than everybody else.  Plenty of them are dumber than a sack of hammers.  (You may think that of me).  But, this comment perhaps relates to your topic on the media.  You can't discount experts off-hand.  Education is highly valuable, provided you understand the limitations.  Am  I an expert on Afghanistan?  By means no.  But, I have come across friends coming back from Afghanistan who think they are since they served there for 6-8 months.  Do you speak the language fluently I ask them.  No is the response.  Well how can you truly understand the country if you are not familiar with something as basic as the language I ask? Education has its limitations whether at a civilian institution or within the CF.  Lots of academics are stuck in an Ivory Tower-but lots of soldiers are stuck in their uniform.  Much of winning hearts and minds (something essential for HUMINT) has nothing to do with soldier qualifications, as you say  "strong moral and ethical standards and honesty"  go a long way.  Some soldiers have them.  Some don't.  Ditto Academics.         

 

[Franko]

Honestly, I think a person with a Master's or PhD in International Relations and fluent several languages would be of far better use than the average soldier with respect to HUMINT.

Much of winning hearts and minds (something essential for HUMINT) has nothing to do with soldier qualifications...

With those statements you just proved how very little you know about the entire HUMINT scope/ mandate and the INT trade entirely.

Regards

 

[George Wallace]

stegner

I think we are pretty much in agreement.  We have posted opposite views as generalizations, but seem to be saying pretty much the same thing.

 

[stegner]

stegner

I think we are pretty much in agreement.  We have posted opposite views as generalizations, but seem to be saying pretty much the same thing.

Cheers! 

Much of winning hearts and minds (something essential for HUMINT) has nothing to do with soldier qualifications...

Um if you are recruiting someone (i.e. Afghan civilian) to serve as an intelligence resource you need to win their hearts and minds no?  That person is not much use if you as a recruiter have not won him over.  That's what I mean. 

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

What we really need is somebody with college majors in Theatre and World Languages. 

 

[Fusaki]

What we really need is somebody with college majors in Theatre and World Languages. 

And a tortured past involving gorillas and blueberries? ;D

 

[Greymatters]

Cheers! 

Um if you are recruiting someone (i.e. Afghan civilian) to serve as an intelligence resource you need to win their hearts and minds no?  That person is not much use if you as a recruiter have not won him over.  That's what I mean. 

Part of winning hearts and minds is developing rapport with the person, your 'Afghan civilian' in this case.  In my experience, its the most important part, but there are others with differing opinions.  That means being able to identify with that person's life experiences and providing examples from your own experiences that they too can identify with.  A captain with a masters in art history who never worked with engines before isnt likely to connect well with the local mechanic who's been working on cars since he was 6 years old.  The local population is composed of a wide range of people with different backgrounds, so you increase your chances of making connections by having a variety of skilled persons from a variety of different backgrounds, and even then there is no guarantee that the person will make that connection.  Having a degree or a masters does not guarantee this will happen (unless of course you are trying to connect with a person who wont talk to you unless you have a masters or a degree...)  

Regarding speaking of languages, being fluent in the local language is a tremendous boost (and is also a double-edged sword), but it is not a barrier to understanding between two people if you've got a good interpreter.  

 

[stegner]

Part of winning hearts and minds is developing rapport with the person, your 'Afghan civilian' in this case.  In my experience, its the most important part, but there are others with differing opinions.  That means being able to identify with that person's life experiences and providing examples from your own experiences that they too can identify with.  A captain with a masters in art history who never worked with engines before isnt likely to connect well with the local mechanic who's been working on cars since he was 6 years old.  The local population is composed of a wide range of people with different backgrounds, so you increase your chances of making connections by having a variety of skilled persons from a variety of different backgrounds, and even then there is no guarantee that the person will make that connection.  Having a degree or a masters does not guarantee this will happen (unless of course you are trying to connect with a person who wont talk to you unless you have a masters or a degree...) 

Regarding speaking of languages, being fluent in the local language is a tremendous boost (and is also a double-edged sword), but it is not a barrier to understanding between two people if you've got a good interpreter. 

I agree with everything you are saying. 

 

[MarkOttawa]

A column by Colby Cosh in the National Post, May 30:

The necessity of HUMINT
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=1df921f8-9b4e-4cea-9a58-e3ff3977ab1f

Mark
Ottawa

 

[George Wallace]

A column by Colby Cosh in the National Post, May 30:

The necessity of HUMINT
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=1df921f8-9b4e-4cea-9a58-e3ff3977ab1f

Mark
Ottawa

An excellent article by someone who seems to know exactly what he is talking about.

 

[lone bugler]

wow what a great article. Ofcourse their not gonna disclose alot of information besides funding, it's military intelligence... this reporter isn't the brightest bulb in the box I'm glad their are opening up the intelligence trade more

 

[Greymatters]

An excellent article by someone who seems to know exactly what he is talking about. 

Bullseye! - round peg in round hole on that one. 

 

[George Wallace]

............... I'm glad their are opening up the intelligence trade more

This (HUMINT) is not an INT OP job.  It is an "Any Trade" job.  It doesn't make you an INT OP.

 

[Greymatters]

This (HUMINT) is not an INT OP job.  It is an "Any Trade" job.  It doesn't make you an INT OP.

Or vice-versa, being an INT OP doesnt make you a HUMINT expert either.  However, because it requires intelligence techniques and tools, you will still find a whole lot of INT OPs in the woodpile... 

 

[Jarnhamar]

Dawn Black.

Dawn. When you do stand-to's because thats when the enemy attacks. Dark changes to light. Shadows moving. Very spy like.
Black. Sinister colour. Black ops.

Is "Dawn Black" really an NDP Defense critic or is "she" actually a double agent FROM this new spy unit placed here to begin a campaign of misinformation so information about this spy unit gets downplayed.

Very clever Mr Harper.

 

[Strike]

Bwahahaha.  Damn!  That's good.