Canada to Spend $5.0Bil on AEW Aircraft (Saab Globaleye)

[childs56]

100%. It was cute when I took some PS up to North Bay and there was a WASF exercise going on. Was entertaining that somebody thought it was serious.

WASF being conducted/supervised by other then Cbt Arms is a silly adventure.
Having a Avn Tech in charge of a platoon or section to provide base security is silly and counter to what should be done.

But taking in all considerations and Needs have to be addressed such as base security in a high risk situation and keeping jets in the air. Taking Techs away from the line to play bang bank buck and set up mod tents ️ is not a wise use of resources. Especially if the jets are down due to lack of techs.

But deploying techs who cant at least shoot their rifle and operate out of austere conditions (1 star hotel style accommodations) is also a disservice. Finding the time to do both is the consuming difficult part.

 

[ytz]

WASF being conducted/supervised by other then Cbt Arms is a silly adventure.

Cbt Arms guy wants to sound important.

Actual security has more to do with brains than braun. Exactly why Security Forces is now becoming a proper trade.

 

[Halifax Tar]

WASF being conducted/supervised by other then Cbt Arms is a silly adventure.
Having a Avn Tech in charge of a platoon or section to provide base security is silly and counter to what should be done.

lol Thanks. I needed that.

 

[captloadie]

Security Force tasks are not the same as combat arms tasks, nor the same as MP tasks. Just taking either and putting them in charge is going to lead to less than ideal outcomes.

Reminds me of one of my early training events as a Log O. We were practicing how to deescalate a situation at checkpoints I believe and there were actors who were meant to represent disgruntled locals who wanted through the checkpoint. There was an ex-MP who had OT'd to Log O manning the checkpoint. When the "locals" started becoming more aggressive and started crowding the checkpoint, she full on butt stroked a guy with her C7. Needless to say, staff provided some good teaching points as a result of her actions.

 

[ytz]

Security Force tasks are not the same as combat arms tasks, nor the same as MP tasks. Just taking either and putting them in charge is going to lead to less than ideal outcomes.

Reminds me of one of my early training events as a Log O. We were practicing how to deescalate a situation at checkpoints I believe and there were actors who were meant to represent disgruntled locals who wanted through the checkpoint. There was an ex-MP who had OT'd to Log O manning the checkpoint. When the "locals" started becoming more aggressive and started crowding the checkpoint, she full on butt stroked a guy with her C7. Needless to say, staff provided some good teaching points as a result of her actions.

Exactly. I want an IT geek pen tester who will tell me all my vulnerabilities, not a meathead who thinks my biggest problem is not having a .50 cal at the gate. The most likely threat, these days, are not somebody ramming the gate. It's someone flying drones over, attacking infrastructure supporting the base (power, telecom, water) and cyber attacks. SF should do better across a lot of these threats.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Except our adversaries are not stupid, they will test your drone defenses with hobby drones, determine that route is not an option. Rent a truck, pack it with fertilizer and ram it through the gate, or better yet disguise it as a mundane delivery. So you still need the meathead at the gate, a way to prevent said truck ramming through, a way to respond with force to force (eg; a MG) and a way to catch the vehicle if it is trying to sneak in as a legitimate delivery. So now we are at 3 different method. Toss in perimeter patrols to prevent people cutting through fences. That involves regular patrols, maintenance of vegetation on both sides of the fence. Securing any remote gates from being breached easily as well.

 

[Furniture]

Except our adversaries are not stupid, they will test your drone defenses with hobby drones, determine that route is not an option. Rent a truck, pack it with fertilizer and ram it through the gate, or better yet disguise it as a mundane delivery. So you still need the meathead at the gate, a way to prevent said truck ramming through, a way to respond with force to force (eg; a MG) and a way to catch the vehicle if it is trying to sneak in as a legitimate delivery. So now we are at 3 different method. Toss in perimeter patrols to prevent people cutting through fences. That involves regular patrols, maintenance of vegetation on both sides of the fence. Securing any remote gates from being breached easily as well.

You're comparing two types of "attack" that are at entirely different scales, both in complexity to achieve and escalation.

On the daily, you need a means to detect and deter drones, and to maintain physical security measures like fences and clear approaches to the fences.

Long before a truck smashes into a gate packed with explosives, the entire criminal and military intelligence system would have to fail. Like everything else security related, it has to start with a realistic threat assesment, based on intelligence, not just a "but what if?"

You also need to consider the costs of having people sitting around manning machine guns at gates 24/7. There is a large salary cost, there is a morale cost for the members tasked with sitting at a gun they know they will never use, and there is a public relations cost to having our bases look like we are an invading force in our own almost entirely peaceful country.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

You're comparing two types of "attack" that are at entirely different scales, both in complexity to achieve and escalation.

On the daily, you need a means to detect and deter drones, and to maintain physical security measures like fences and clear approaches to the fences.

Long before a truck smashes into a gate packed with explosives, the entire criminal and military intelligence system would have to fail. Like everything else security related, it has to start with a realistic threat assesment, based on intelligence, not just a "but what if?"

You also need to consider the costs of having people sitting around manning machine guns at gates 24/7. There is a large salary cost, there is a morale cost for the members tasked with sitting at a gun they know they will never use, and there is a public relations cost to having our bases look like we are an invading force in our own almost entirely peaceful country.

There was a MG bunker on the inside facing the gate at Lahr, duty for that was interspersed amongst the lodger units. I agree that intelligence and police work are your first line of defense. However if that were to fail, it would be remarkably easy to penetrate a base right now. I would say the navy bases have the advantage over Air and army bases as duty ship crews have fairly quick access to small arms and ammunition.

Building some MG bunkers is easy, hardening your perimeter is harder, but doable in stages. Along the fence line, dig a ditch line and ensure vegetation is kept clear on both sides. Gates meant for occasional access, but can be accessed by public road on the outside need to be hardened with vehicle barriers. Main gates need to be hardened with concrete designed to channel and limit vehicle movement. Deployable vehicle barriers should be installed and guardhouses as they are renovated made to withstand small arms fire.

You are right the people part is the hardest part. You can have the commissionaires do the ID checking, but you should have armed guards to protect the gate and observe what is happening. You need a fulltime security office that monitors gates, fencelines and sensitive areas using PTZ cameras. You need to update your ID systems to allow for swipe cards, modern security systems will allow you to add or remove various access privileges. Checking manifests against cargo at the gate might be time consuming, but important. You can man the MG bunker if you get a viable threat warning to bolster the protection level.

The more you secure the bases, the less likley they will be targets. As for making bases look like a real military base and not a country club, I think the majority will understand pretty quick. The main complaint will be the slowdown getting in and out of the bases.

 

[Halifax Tar]

There was a MG bunker on the inside facing the gate at Lahr, duty for that was interspersed amongst the lodger units. I agree that intelligence and police work are your first line of defense. However if that were to fail, it would be remarkably easy to penetrate a base right now. I would say the navy bases have the advantage over Air and army bases as duty ship crews have fairly quick access to small arms and ammunition.

Building some MG bunkers is easy, hardening your perimeter is harder, but doable in stages. Along the fence line, dig a ditch line and ensure vegetation is kept clear on both sides. Gates meant for occasional access, but can be accessed by public road on the outside need to be hardened with vehicle barriers. Main gates need to be hardened with concrete designed to channel and limit vehicle movement. Deployable vehicle barriers should be installed and guardhouses as they are renovated made to withstand small arms fire.

You are right the people part is the hardest part. You can have the commissionaires do the ID checking, but you should have armed guards to protect the gate and observe what is happening. You need a fulltime security office that monitors gates, fencelines and sensitive areas using PTZ cameras. You need to update your ID systems to allow for swipe cards, modern security systems will allow you to add or remove various access privileges. Checking manifests against cargo at the gate might be time consuming, but important. You can man the MG bunker if you get a viable threat warning to bolster the protection level.

The more you secure the bases, the less likley they will be targets. As for making bases look like a real military base and not a country club, I think the majority will understand pretty quick. The main complaint will be the slowdown getting in and out of the bases.

Wait for it. The security world for the RCN is about to change with the coming of AEGIS.

It will change everything from gates to fencing, to warehouse security, all of it.

There are more days behind than in front of some ancient unarmed commissionaire sleeping at a gate and pretending like we're secure.