Canada vs ISIL: War vs fight? (split fm Politics in 2016)

[The Bread Guy]

Interesting messaging/nuancing on the fight against ISIS/ISIL/Daesh by the PM and his foreign minister - highlights mine ...

The Liberal government says Canada is not at war with Islamic militants -- a view not shared by ally France.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Foreign Affairs Minister Stephane Dion rejected the "at war" label just one day after the bombings in Brussels that killed more than 30 people and injured 270.

After the attacks, French Prime Minister Manuel Valls used the term Tuesday following a crisis meeting called by French President Francois Hollande.

"We are at war," said Valls. "We have been subjected for the last few months in Europe to acts of war." Added Hollande: "This war will be long."

The bombings in Brussels came four months after the attacks in Paris that left 130 dead.

The militant group known as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant has claimed responsibility for both incidents.

Trudeau, who made his comments during a CBC Radio interview, and Dion -- speaking Wednesday in the House of Commons foyer -- both said the conflict with ISIL does not fit the true definition of war.

"A war is something that can be won by one side or the other and there is no path for ISIL to actually win against the West," Trudeau said.

"They want to destabilize, they want to strike fear. They need to be stamped out."

Dion suggested the notion of labelling the fight against extremists as an actual war might simply be outdated.

"If you use the terminology 'war,' in international law it will mean two armies with respecting rules and it's not the case at all," Dion said.

"You have terrorist groups that respect nothing. So we prefer to say that it's a fight."

A fight, Dion added, that the West is determined to win. "Each of the attacks will only strengthen our resolve." ...

op:

 

[jollyjacktar]

Break out the kazoos, we're at Kumbaya.  :

Cry Havoc, and let slip the care bears of... Non confrontational confrontation.

 

[cavalryman]

Break out the kazoos, we're at Kumbaya.  :

Cry Havoc, and let slip the care bears of... Non confrontational confrontation.

Considering the 70s have called and want their budget back, perhaps we should be thinking Teletubbies >

 

[jollyjacktar]

Ascots all round.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Ascots all round.

Powder blue ones of course. 

 

[George Wallace]

Someone is going to be in a real world of hurt when REALITY hits them square in the face.

 

[GAP]

Someone is going to be in a real world of hurt when REALITY hits them square in the face.

Yeah, every Canadian citizen......

 

[jmt18325]

I'm not sure what's wrong with saying it isn't a war - it isn't.  War has a technical, legal definition.  We're in a battle - a fight. 

 

[George Wallace]

I'm not sure what's wrong with saying it isn't a war - it isn't.  War has a technical, legal definition.  We're in a battle - a fight.

Ah!  The Vietnam War.  Who came in first, and who came in second?  :

More seriously; Afghanistan.  Do you think Afghanistan was a battle or a war?

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'm not sure what's wrong with saying it isn't a war - it isn't.  War has a technical, legal definition.  We're in a battle - a fight.

What's your definition of war?



Also did I read right?  The budget calls for 8million for counter terrorism and 675million for the cbc?

 

[cavalryman]

What's your definition of war?



Also did I read right?  The budget calls for 8million for counter terrorism and 675million for the cbc?

Obviously the CBC is the greater threat [

 

[jollyjacktar]

I'm not sure what's wrong with saying it isn't a war - it isn't.  War has a technical, legal definition.  We're in a battle - a fight.

War is such a strong word... maybe we should call it a "tiff"

You know, like the second world war tiff, the first world war disagreement

 

[jmt18325]

What's your definition of war?

It's not my definition.  My definition is irrelevant. 

The use of violence and force between two or more states to resolve a matter of dispute.

http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/W/War.aspx

 

[jmt18325]

War is such a strong word... maybe we should call it a "tiff"

War is not too strong of a word, it's simply the wrong word.

 

[cavalryman]

War is not too strong of a word, it's simply the wrong word.

A police action like that little fracas on the Korean peninsula circa 1950-54?

 

[Old Sweat]

What if Harper had asserted we are not in a war, we are in a fight.

Bingo: Trudeau announces Canada joins global war on terror.

Thinking about, and after the cheap shot, war should require a formal declaration under international war. Conflict, on the other hand, is killing people without the formalities. Fight means a sweaty arena and fans cheering for the various players working for the "address groups"* that identify people thumping each other for money.

* Do we still use them?

 

[jollyjacktar]

Yeah... nobody gets hurt in a police action.  Unless it's in Ferguson.

 

[Jarnhamar]

It's not my definition.  My definition is irrelevant. 

The use of violence and force between two or more states to resolve a matter of dispute.

http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/W/War.aspx

So you don't consider ISIL/ISIS a state? 

 

[dapaterson]

Ah!  The Vietnam War.  Who came in first, and who came in second?  :

More seriously; Afghanistan.  Do you think Afghanistan was a battle or a war?

Did we mobilize the nation's resources?  Did Parliament issue a formal declaration of war?  Did we deploy the army, or did we send less than 10% of the Army at any one time and then send them off for mid-deployment vacations?


And terror is a tactic.  Declaring a war on terror is like declaring a war on left flanking.

 

[jmt18325]

So you don't consider ISIL/ISIS a state?

No, I don't acknowledge their claims, nor does the Obama administration.