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Canada's Role Must Change

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Jorkapp

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Canada's Role Must Change

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Like you and most of the people at this dinner, I had hoped to hear Charley Fox tonight. He was a Guelph boy who joined the Air Force in 1940 and had a distinguished record, flying Spitfires and earning a DFC and Bar. Perhaps he is best known for strafing Field Marshal Erwin Rommel's car and almost causing the death of the German general. All of Guelph was shocked and saddened by Charley's death a few weeks ago.

It is my hope that I will convey some of his thoughts in my talk tonight. I know he was concerned about the current war in Afghanistan. Like me, he realized that our country was divided as to whether we should have troops there or not. But the fact is that our governments decided to be part of the NATO operation. That decision is questioned by many people on the basis that they believe Canada should be involved only in peacekeeping operations. In the light of that, perhaps it is important to review our military history over the last hundred years. Our theme this year, is the 90th anniversary of the Armistice, 90 years since the end of WW1. Let us ask:

What did we do during that horrific war of mud and blood? Canada with a population of roughly 8 million, had 640,000 people in uniform including my grandfather and father - 72,000 were killed and 175,000 wounded (one of which was my father at age 16)

It is useful to remember that even before WW1 Canada was part of the Boer War. We sent 8,000 troops, including my grandfather, of which 250 died.

In the Second World War, Canada's population was 12 million with 1 million in uniform, including me and my father and many more people present here tonight. Fifty thousand were killed and about 60,000 wounded. Many of my friends were among the 50,000 killed.

In the Korean War, we had 34,000 troops in Korea, more than most people think, with 500 killed.

In Afghanistan, you may disagree with the war but all Canadians should acknowledge and pay tribute to our exceptionally impressive troops. We have had 98 casualties, the third highest casualty rate of the participating nations. You will see that Canada has usually been at the sharp end in Wars.

Let me return to peacekeeping which we did so well for 30 years or more. Peacekeeping assumes that there is peace to keep. That has not been so in recent history. There was no peace in Rwanda and the UN could not field a sufficiently strong force to be much help. We Canadians remember Somalia, where peacekeeping did not work.

In Darfur, once again, the UN is not an effective organization to bring sense and peace to the area. In the Balkans, the UN was nominally a peacekeeping force but people were being killed and in order to survive UN troops were forced to act as peace makers. In Afghanistan the mission is led by NATO, because once again, the UN could not act. It is worth remembering that for the UN to act there must be a unanimous resolution from the Security Council and then countries must volunteer the troops to keep peace. The UN has really been silent on peace -making.

Nothing I have just said is good news and I see difficulties ahead. First, most recent issues have been within a single state or country and the UN is very reluctant to act or unable to act and will probably remain so because of the structure of the Security Council. Second, if there is a conflict between two or more countries, it will be impossible to stop the fighting to send peacekeepers in.

In the future will NATO or Europe be willing or allowed to be that force? Even now in Afghanistan we see NATO divided as to the role that each country will take but once again Canada is in the dangerous zone along with the United States, Britain, Netherlands and Denmark. Many NATO countries will not allow their troops to be in the really dangerous areas.

In summary, I doubt that we will see much peacekeeping in the future except perhaps for very small conflicts. The Canadian role will have to change. We will find ourselves peace making and our government will have to decide in each case whether or not we are part of a mission. If we stay at the sharp end, as is our tradition, there will be more deaths to remember and Remembrance Days will be even more poignant as conflict continues in the world.

This speech was given by Dr. William Winegard on Remembrance Day in Guelph (this version was taken from the Pre-Remembrance day dinner the night before, hence the reference of the dinner, but the speech content is the same). The speech was very well received by the public (with many asking for copies of it), which was a surprise given it's content and the largely peace-loving population.

IMO, this is what needs to be said, and this is what Canadians need to hear. It's time to wake up and smell the ashes of peacekeeping.

If anyone is interested in getting the unabridged version of this speech, email Dr. Winegard (I have his address, PM for it).
 
Peacekeeping is a United Nations organization; using international participants to become Peacekeepers for a defined amount of time.

The Canadian Forces are not the UN Peacekeeping Committee (or whatever it's called) and therefore I do not want Canada to change its roles; we should stay where we are and have people volunteer to help the UN in Peacekeeping operations.
 
R. Jorgensen said:
Peacekeeping is a United Nations organization; using international participants to become Peacekeepers for a defined amount of time.

The Canadian Forces are not the UN Peacekeeping Committee (or whatever it's called) and therefore I do not want Canada to change its roles; we should stay where we are and have people volunteer to help the UN in Peacekeeping operations.

Laddy or Lassie, whichever you are, you have no idea what you are talking about.

The UN is a corrupt organization. In 1993, in the FRY we were deployed in Sector South and were involved in the Medak Pocket. Ourt "allies" were selling diesel meant to refuel UN vehicles. The UNCIVPOL police were sometimes firefighters because they kicked bakc half their UN pay to their village chief.
Peacekeeping works when the two sides want to make peace.
Get some time in a uniform, thanks.
 
R. Jorgensen said:
Peacekeeping is a United Nations organization; using international participants to become Peacekeepers for a defined amount of time.

The Canadian Forces are not the UN Peacekeeping Committee (or whatever it's called) and therefore I do not want Canada to change its roles; we should stay where we are and have people volunteer to help the UN in Peacekeeping operations.

Huh?

In Canada, CF members don't volunteer with the UN. They are tasked to deploy on one of our missions that is under the auspecies of the UN (i.e. Op Snowgoose in Cyprus or Op Jade in the Mid East). Not sure where you're getting this 'peacekeeping committee' and that other 'information' from.
 
Piper said:
Huh?

In Canada, CF members don't volunteer with the UN. They are tasked to deploy on one of our missions that is under the auspecies of the UN (i.e. Op Snowgoose in Cyprus or Op Jade in the Mid East). Not sure where you're getting this 'peacekeeping committee' and that other 'information' from.

I was unaware; I've only ever gone by what has been taught to me in school, obviously Public Schools are wrong however I have read a few books and after recalling the "corruption" that one had spoke of has returned - I apologized for inaccurate information.

Now that I have announced that I stand corrected, I would just like to note that I have spent time in a uniform; SEVERAL uniforms as a matter of fact - do some research on who you're going to flame before summoning a hellish firestorm and don't assume that they haven't spent "time" in uniform. Unless by uniform you mean a Canadian Forces uniform, then yes, I have yet to serve.
 
R. Jorgensen said:
I would just like to note that I have spent time in a uniform; SEVERAL uniforms as a matter of fact - do some research on who you're going to flame before summoning a hellish firestorm and don't assume that they haven't spent "time" in uniform.

As much as I admire anyone who spends time in the Cadet system, I dont think Army cadets and Russian similar youth/childrens uniforms counts when it comes to real world siutations.

OWDU
 
Overwatch Downunder said:
As much as I admire anyone who spends time in the Cadet system, I dont think Army cadets and Russian similar youth/childrens uniforms counts when it comes to real world siutations.

OWDU

My days back home at the RM Academy were a lot more "real world" than you think.
 
R. Jorgensen said:
My days back home at the RM Academy were a lot more "real world" than you think.

I will simply sum up.

Mate, you're 16 and just a kid.

However, whatever you say. It must have been hell.   :warstory:

I guess my time with my combat team with 207 days in Baghdad Province, and Baghdad City is nothing compared to your experiences.

EDIT: Remember, its your integrity on here, not ours. Comparing a children's organsation to real pointy end experience by many on here in a hostile environment, including myself is not the best way to try to express yourself. Others may not be so kind as I.

Have a most pleasant day.

OWDU
 
Sorry AEC Kap, but this is going to be locked until people can stop trying to piss higher up the wall than someone else and learn how to carry on a civil discussion.

When you folks are ready to come back to the topic that started the thread, let a mod know, and they'll unlock it.

Milnet.ca Staff
 
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