Canadian: Air Passenger bill of rights [Merged]

[visitor]

Air Canada circa: 1990s. Someone gets sick, attendant asks if there is a doctor on board.  Young doctor spends 4 hours standing around babysitting a patient. Flight ends. Patient gets bottle of wine from flight attendant.  Doctor gets nothing. Go figure.

 

[Good2Golf]

Air Canada circa: 1990s. Someone gets sick, attendant asks if there is a doctor on board.  Young doctor spends 4 hours standing around babysitting a patient. Flight ends. Patient gets bottle of wine from flight attendant.  Doctor gets nothing. Go figure.

Several years ago, AC flight from Frankfurt to Toronto...pax beside me has grand mal seizure.  I help stabilize along with pax's spouse, making sure O2, etc.. provided by cabin crew is OK.  At end of flight, chief steward comes up to me and thanks me for assisting and comforting pax, and offers me a bottle of wine.  I politely declined, mentioning that I'm CF member traveling on business, but thanked him and suggested that he could pick someone randomly on the next flight that really looked like they need a break (frazzled mom with 5 kids, etc...) and pass it on to them.  Sometimes it's the crappy experiences we remember the most...

 

[Globesmasher]

I don't know about other bases, but here, WOps has your green passport which you have to sign out when travelling on official military business...such as deployment.  I also used to have a blue one for travel, speaking of which I should get it redone soon!  I don't think you're allowed to travel in country on vacation using the green one.  But I could be wrong.   :-\ 

CDN A, you could be right.   

Prior to 2004 a service member was required to surrender their personal blue Canadian passport in order to have the 2 "official" green Govt passports issued.
I recall quite clearly having to go to 8 Wing Ops between 1995 - 2001 and obtain one of my green passports each time I wished to travel with a Canadian passport in my possession - regardless of whether I am travelling inside Canada or outside.  As a Canadian citizen it is your RIGHT to travel with your Canadian passport whenever and wherever you wish.

What pissed me off each time was trying to argue with the passport clerk to obtain possession of my green passport for my holiday travel becasue WE HAD TO SURRENDER OUR PERSONAL BLUE ONE during in-clearance and issue of the green one.  Canadian service personnel were NOT allowed to be in possession of both the green and the blue passports at the same time. Therefore, one had no choice but to travel on personal holidays with the official green passport.

That all finally changed in 2004.

Canadian service personnel are now allowed to have BOTH issued - thus you can travel with your blue passport (which you obtain at your own personal expense) when on holiday and your green issued Govt passport on official business/duty.

It is good to see that system fixed.

 

[visitor]

Good2Golf, Please don't misunderstand. No remumeration was expected and would have have been declined,  but to be taken for granted and not thanked was a bit of a bummer.  Sounds like your crew was classier.

 

[Springroll]

IIRC , Springroll was posted OUTCAN at the time

You are correct.

 

[garb811]

The police follow this principle when they accidentally raid a house and find they've raided the wrong house.  They dont just walk away, they try to make things right.  The CF and many other allied nations use these principles of respect successfully in our security work overseas when dealing with other cultures.  Why is it so unreasonable to talk about applying the same principles to our security in Canada? 

Because what happens at a security check point is not the same as what happens during the execution of a search warrant or what we compensate people for when we damage/destroy property during operations. 

I'll continue the example of a search warrant - if the door gets broken, the house is guarded until it can be secured again, in many instances this is not a permanent fix but rather an ad-hoc one.  It is then up to the property owner to pursue a claim against the crown if they decide they want to have the costs of the permanent fix covered.  If it is essentially a permissive entry, as I go about a location executing the warrant I do not put everything back exactly as I found it - depending on the level of intrusion required.  ie. if I need to empty drawers I will remove all of the contents of the drawers and leave the contents in nice little stacks close to where the drawer is located.  This serves two purposes - again, the person the warrant is being executed on is able to immediately check their belongings and it also leaves a clear indication of what has been searched and what hasn't.  Of course, while I'm executing a search warrant I have the luxury of time (normally) because nobody is standing in line waiting for me to finish up so they can get to their plane before the door closes.

As for your assertion that maybe there should have enough personnel at a check point to allow Mrs Bloggins to be assisted while she puts her stuff back together, perhaps, but who is going to bear the cost of having 1-2 extra people per lane, per check point, per shift whose only duty is to assist people in repacking?

 

[CountDC]

As for your assertion that maybe there should have enough personnel at a check point to allow Mrs Bloggins to be assisted while she puts her stuff back together, perhaps, but who is going to bear the cost of having 1-2 extra people per lane, per check point, per shift whose only duty is to assist people in repacking?

I don't get the impression that anyone is saying you would need that many standing around to do it.  The impression I get and agree with is that someone there should have stepped up and assisted - such as the security staff that is doing nothing but watch her or gab to each other while she packs her stuff. Wouldn't hurt them to much have one or two additional staff there to help things flow smoother either.

 

[1feral1]

Humble devoted members and curious guests, its my turn to rant....

This is Air Canada. Read on. Yes booked thru them on the INet.

Soon I leave for Saskatchewan on a 3 week adventure of shooting, drinking and being a social freak amongst freaks.

Without going PERSEC mode.

I leave here on a Sunday, and arrive 3.5 days later in Saskatchewan, when I have flown five other times door to door in no more than 32 hours. Obvious layover and stupid delays in that 3 days - oh joy or what!

When I leave Saskatchewan, it will take me 4 days to get home, with more layover and delays between flights.

Thats the best booking that Air Canada could do.

I'll think twice next time who I choose to fly with.

Literally seven days wasted in travel time, when it normally is about 60 hrs all up.

Rant off.


Peace, love and harmony, and most importantly - serenity now,

OWDU

 

[Edward Campbell]

In case you haven't heard, Wes, Air Canada is not immune to the fuel price woes that beset all airlines.

Air Canada recently announced that it was, flat out, cutting several routes and reducing the frequency of others (e.g. Vancouver-Beijing from daily to three times a week, and Vancouver to Shanghai, from daily to four times a week). That means that almost everyone will have to plan much more carefully if they want or need to maximize time on the ground at their destination. That can be difficult if you cannot be somewhat flexible with leave/travel dates.

Fares are on the rise, service levels (of all sorts) are falling - everywhere: even on Singapore and Cathay Pacific Airlines. Such are the harsh realities of business. Costs must be lower than revenues or, eventually, the whole business goes belly up.

 

[jzaidi1]

Air Canada - the morons that run that dilapidated airline could have forseen the higher fuel costs and bargain for fixed rates for fixed length like Southwest did.  Southwest is paying $70 per barrel I believe while the going rate for aviation fuel is much higher.  Hindsight is always 20/20.

J

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Costs must be lower than revenues or, eventually, the whole business goes belly up.

Unless you're the Ontario govt...............

 

[Edward Campbell]

Not even governments are immune.

Remember New Zealand in the '80s; its economy "hit the wall" and the crisis prompted demanded a sharp about turn - all the policies successive left wing governments held dear were tossed aside, in the blink of an eye, because the people and the politicians came to understand that countries can go broke if expenditures exceed revenues year after year after year.

 

[a_majoor]

Not even governments are immune.

Remember New Zealand in the '80s; its economy "hit the wall" and the crisis prompted demanded a sharp about turn - all the policies successive left wing governments held dear were tossed aside, in the blink of an eye, because the people and the politicians came to understand that countries can go broke if expenditures exceed revenues year after year after year.

Then there IS hope for all of us yet! Ontario looks ready to hit "the wall" real soon now, and the uber case will be next January when president elect (fill in blank) takes a look at the books: will he face the reality and take action using the magic first 100 days, or do we wait for 2012...

 

[TCBF]

Humble devoted members and curious guests, its my turn to rant....

This is Air Canada. Read on. Yes booked thru them on the INet. ...

- Why you don't fly Quantas is beyond me...

 

[1feral1]

In case you haven't heard, Wes, Air Canada is not immune to the fuel price woes that beset all airlines.

Air Canada recently announced that it was, flat out, cutting several routes and reducing the frequency of others (e.g. Vancouver-Beijing from daily to three times a week, and Vancouver to Shanghai, from daily to four times a week). That means that almost everyone will have to plan much more carefully if they want or need to maximize time on the ground at their destination. That can be difficult if you cannot be somewhat flexible with leave/travel dates.

Fares are on the rise, service levels (of all sorts) are falling - everywhere: even on Singapore and Cathay Pacific Airlines. Such are the harsh realities of business. Costs must be lower than revenues or, eventually, the whole business goes belly up.

Hi ERC,

My whinge is not about the international portion of my flights, but domestic from Vancouver to Regina, and from Regina to Calgary. Deliberate unnecessary layovers, RON in YVR coming in (arr 0700, depart at 1100 the next day), and RON in YYC (arr 0700 and depart 1430 the next day), going out is just crap as far as I am concerned. I am sure I could have got better flights then I was given considering the tickets were bought well in advance.  Hence my displeasure. Its crap, as I could literally spend about 3 more days at home, and considering its been over 4 yrs, each day is precious.

Cold beers, and of course, happy days,

Wes

 

[1feral1]

- Why you don't fly Quantas is beyond me...

Next time I'll give the flying roo a go, but like I said above, its the domestic side. However AC international is a shocker.

Quite frankly, I find Air Canada on the same level as China Air, or Air Zimbabwe for that matter  ;D . IMHO Air Canada is a national embarassment.

One would have more entertainment on a C130 than on an Air Canada flight.

Sorry if I have offended any AC employess, but I am sure many would agree 

Happy days,

OWDU

 

[Greymatters]

Quite frankly, I find Air Canada on the same level as China Air, or Air Zimbabwe for that matter  ;D . IMHO Air Canada is a national embarassment. 

Ive heard that the old Russian 'commercial' airline, Aeroflot, was one of the worst in the business.  How would Air Canada compare to them, on a scale of one to ten?

Actually, we should be applying that scale here.  Who would be a 10 out of 10 (best), who would be a 1 (worst), and where do Canadian airlines fit in between?

 

[GAP]

Since when is the customer always wrong?
PETER CHENEY From Wednesday's Globe and Mail August 5, 2008 at 9:52 PM EDT
Article Link

James Osborne's journey to customer service hell began at the Sudbury airport, on the morning of June 28. He boarded an Air Canada flight en route to the Turks and Caicos, where he would spend the next few months spearheading a new software venture.

A few hours later, Mr. Osborne was in paradise. But his luggage wasn't. He had packed his bags with everything from his clothes to his college degree, which he planned to mount on the wall to impress clients. Now he was stuck in the Turks and Caicos with nothing but his briefcase.

Lost bags aren't uncommon, but this was merely the first act in a lengthy drama that would provide Mr. Osborne with an unwanted education on customer service in the age of the giant corporation and the outsourced call centre. The rise of global commerce, corporate cost-cutting and efficient yet depersonalized technology has created legions of angry consumers. Millions have called Better Business Bureaus, government consumer watchdog agencies or, in a new twist, posted entries on consumer complaint websites that serve as digital town halls.

In Mr. Osborne's case, the tiny Turks and Caicos airport had no Air Canada counter – not even a contact number. So he started Googling. He tracked down some phone numbers and called from his cellphone, only to find himself in a voicemail labyrinth. He finally got a human being on the line and was told Air Canada would look into the problem.
More on link

 

[1feral1]

After I whinged on this website abou the piss poor service and quality of the flight between Auckland and Honolulu, and a dirty great big stuff-around in Honolulu by AC, I somehow by someone got bumped to 1st class from Honolulu to Vancouver.

From LAX to Auckland, please help and ole soldier, and veteran out again  ;D Air NZ is 10 fold better in 1st class than AC. In short a real 1st class.

However, 1st class for me from HNL to Van, just meant a wider seat, nothing more, a rather dismal 5.5 hr flight. It beat cattle class

OWDU

 

[a_majoor]

And now, a word from WestJet:

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/francis/archive/2008/05/28/make-2-billion-the-westjet-way.aspx

Make $2 billion the Westjet way
Posted: May 28, 2008, 4:24 PM by Diane Francis

Riding a stock market wave or being an oil sheikh isn't rocket science but creating a success in a lousy sector is not only a miracle but something the rest of us can learn from.
Don Bell is one of four founders of Westjet, a Canadian airline company which began in February 1996 and has made money for investors ever since ($10 to $50 a share) and actually did so by pleasing its employees then customers.

He dropped by to the Dundee/Dynamic group’s Scottsdale Arizona conference this week and treated the audience to a bunch of really smart business and human resources observations. His truisms apply to any enterprise.

“Now the company, which began with three old aircraft bought from Canadian Airlines [taken over by Air Canada], is bigger than Canadian was with 37% of the domestic market,” he said. “First year revenues were $37 million and now it’s $2.1 billion and the market cap is $2 billion.”
Meanwhile, the tarmacs are littered with fallen competitors. So much so that, as Warren Buffett, famously said once that over the span of 58 years America’s commercial airlines have lost a collective total of US$24 billion. He said that the biggest favor that anyone could have done for investors would have been to have shot the Wright Brothers before they took off at Kitty Hawk.

Here are Bell's truisms -- his ten ingredients for business success:

    Find a model that works and copy it. Westjet admired and copied Southwest Airlines, another great business story.
    Treat your employees as your number one priority and they will treat your customers the same way.
    Share the wealth. (Westjet has a capitalist, not unionized, culture because it matches discounted share purchases of up to 25% of worker salaries, dollar for dollar)
    Hire for attitude, train for skills
    Empower your front-line employees who work with the customers
    Embrace technology. Westjet’s profitability is due to its proprietary reservation system which costs 7 cents per customer compared to other airlines where costs are $5 per person.
    First get the business plan, then get the money
    Keep it simple
    Fly union-free
    Party, party, party. (Throw lots of celebrations for employees)

He also said key to creating an intelligent culture was to re-label lots of things. This helped change attitudes and shape the winning DNA which is at the heart of Westjet and other great businesses.

    Call Centers were dubbed Super Sales Centers and the modus operandi was to always answer the phone, never take callers through a series of voice-mail prompts. ("Making customers go through this means they will end up with an agent and be mad, thus setting up the agent for failure and the customer too. So we answer the phones.")
    Accounting is referred to as Beanland
    Executives are called Big Shots
    Passengers are referred to as Guests
    Employees are People
    Policies are Promises

“Attitude is everything and attitude is what you do when you’re not being watched,” he said. “We emphasize four things: smile, make eye contact, listen and remember names. We also have a customer service recovery plan so if we lose your luggage we send you a real apology and a credit for $100.”