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Canadian flamethrowers & Cold War

MadMat

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Hi,

  I've read on wargame rules or TO&E that the Canadian Forces were one of the last NATO armies to use flamethrowers during the Cold War. But once I've searched for any official source stating that, I've found nothing ...  ???

  Could someone confirm, or deny, that they indeed used them. And if they did, does anyone knows the latter's designation?

Thanks.
 
http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/equipment/engineerequipment/flamethrower.htm
http://fuckyeahcanadianforces.tumblr.com/post/28200002610/johanvandemerwe-ppcli-flamethrower-korean-war
 
-Skeletor- said:
http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/equipment/engineerequipment/flamethrower.htm
http://fuckyeahcanadianforces.tumblr.com/post/28200002610/johanvandemerwe-ppcli-flamethrower-korean-war
Thanks.
Actually, I knew the first site, but it is about WW2.
I'm presently interested in Cold War, and more the late decades of the 70's & 80's. I was wondering if the well-established rumor among wargamers that Canadian Forces were the last to use flamethrowers in those days was based on facts or just a legend.
 
MadMat said:
Thanks.
Actually, I knew the first site, but it is about WW2.
I'm presently interested in Cold War, and more the late decades of the 70's & 80's. I was wondering if the well-established rumor among wargamers that Canadian Forces were the last to use flamethrowers in those days was based on facts or just a legend.

Flamethrowers during the Cold War... isn't that an Oxymoron?  ;D
 
We still have them in war stocks, me and my section commander found the stock numbers for flame throwers, vehicle mounts for them, and the related EIS. We wanted to try and order one for mounting on a HL but our Sgt said no cause it was probably impossible to explain why we wanted it
 
MilEME09 said:
We still have them in war stocks, me and my section commander found the stock numbers for flame throwers, vehicle mounts for them, and the related EIS. We wanted to try and order one for mounting on a HL but our Sgt said no cause it was probably impossible to explain why we wanted it

When was that?
And they were supposed to be vehicule-mounted? On what vehicle?
And would you, by any chance, know their designation?
 
MilEME09 said:
We still have them in war stocks, me and my section commander found the stock numbers for flame throwers, vehicle mounts for them, and the related EIS. We wanted to try and order one for mounting on a HL but our Sgt said no cause it was probably impossible to explain why we wanted it

You mean " Just 'cause we can" and "It would be so cool!" aren't good enough reasons?

How times have changed since the Cold War Days. :nod:
 
According to the books Tools of the Trade: Equipping the Canadian Army, Mechanized Flamethrowers in Canadian Service and Secret Weapons of the Canadian Army, the later two by Roger V. Lucy, we had a number of different flame warfare systems during WWII and retained the capability for some time.

According to 'Mechanized Flamethrowers; fittings for WASP 2C mounts were retained at various levels as HQ assets, with several Universal carriers being capable of mounting the system for as long as we retained the Universal carrier. There was a little bit of up and down on this, but in 49, it was decided that each Inf Battalion's carrier platoon would have three and the rest would be kept for training. We also developed a version of the WWII Badger system and fitted it to our M4A2E8 "Kangaroos" though how standardized this modification was I cannot say.

We also developed a new system "Iroquois" which was fitted to universal carriers after about 1950 with a contract completed for 100 systems. This was better than the WASP 2C in all ways, but the terrain in Korea was apparantly bad for the 18 WASP Carriers which were sent and they saw little use. Iroquois was deployed however to germany and to reg force battalions in Canada from sept 1953, but none were sent to Korea.

We used us M2 series flame throwers and Life Bouys in Korea and would have also retained them for some time it seems, but the once-promised forthcoming book on manportable flame weapons has disappeared from the www.servicepub.com website, sadly.

Iroquois was fitted to the Bobcat APC while under development, though an improved system "Cree" was not. From 53 to 56 Cree was mounted in a de-turreted MkIII Centurion, but this was cancelled after passing trials it's before it could be issued.

Sadly, by 58, insufficient parts supplies were causing serviceable iroquios and carriers to decline and flame warfare declined to 1962 when mechanized flame carriers were declared obsolete and ordered disposed of. To this time some systems had been retained at higher levels. it was promised that once Bobcat materialized Cree would be fitted to it, but we all know how that turned out. The book concludes by stating that some manpack systems (M2 series) were retained for training and testing purposes for sometime thereafter.

Even if some were in warstocks, our recent visit from the UN arms limitation people would have seen to them, as they saw to our C1s, c2s, ect.

From a wargaming standpoint, I would however expect flame throwers to be a fixture of any canadian forces unit in anything but a sudden emergency, right up till the 1980s. Historically, we're fond of them and they work, similiar situations tending to lead to similar solutions and history tending to rhyme, if not repeat, I think the conclusion is logical.
 
MadMat said:
When was that?
And they were supposed to be vehicule-mounted? On what vehicle?
And would you, by any chance, know their designation?

We found both the Man Pack, and the vehicle mounted version, the mount it self was a different stock number, my assumption is on a M113, but doesn't mean a skilled vtech couldn't rig it up. As for designations no, I'd have to find the weapons catalogue, might take some time to dig up my unit just moved buildings.
 
MilEME09 said:
We still have them in war stocks, me and my section commander found the stock numbers for flame throwers, vehicle mounts for them, and the related EIS. We wanted to try and order one for mounting on a HL but our Sgt said no cause it was probably impossible to explain why we wanted it

Just because they are listed, doesn't mean we have them.

We have light sabres listed (no kidding) but they are on back order  ;)

and no, I don't have the number handy.
 
I'm almost sure we have a qualification code still in the system for flamethrower... I think I stumbled across it while searching random MITE codes in Monitor MASS some time back.

It goes without saying that they've been long rendered illegal for our military use by treaty.
 
20-A06-7988, Lightesabre Master Replica, Electro-luminescent Core, Measures 46.7Lx1.75Hx2.5W, Requires 3 AA batteries, Digitally Recorded Sound Effects, Integrated Sensor Switch, Colour Red, Used by Jedi's.

As per the MIMS screen.
 
bLUE fOX said:
20-A06-7988, Lightesabre Master Replica, Electro-luminescent Core, Measures 46.7Lx1.75Hx2.5W, Requires 3 AA batteries, Digitally Recorded Sound Effects, Integrated Sensor Switch, Colour Red, Used by Jedi's.

As per the MIMS screen.

I had the RQ requisition one and we got a response two weeks later that it was backordered and we would be notified when it became available again.
LSVADER.gif
 
Just like there is an NSN for M113 c/w Troops......my question is how do the troops breath in all that shrink wrap..... ;D
 
I think It's hilarious that MIMS makes sure you know it's for use by Jedi's. I always thought that Jedi's used green though.
 
These light sabers are meant for Jedi's who turned to the dark side  ;D
 
MilEME09 said:
We found both the Man Pack, and the vehicle mounted version, the mount it self was a different stock number, my assumption is on a M113, but doesn't mean a skilled vtech couldn't rig it up. As for designations no, I'd have to find the weapons catalogue, might take some time to dig up my unit just moved buildings.
Did the mount for M113 was under turret, like the American M132?
http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/m132/Interesting
Or was it an external, same as for the .50?
 
Traditional flamethrowers are obsolete, but some armies now use Thermobaric warheads on rockets (most particularly the Russians).

Canadians are considered to be on the forefront in defending against this type of weapon, though:

http://secondsightresearch.tripod.com/id77.html
 
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