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I think the Canadian government thinks it can manage our own "frigate gap" much like the UK and RN and is willing to endure what may happen over the next 20 years as we replace the Halifax fleet
Canadian River Class Destroyer Megathread
- Thread starter jmt18325
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And we all keep our fingers crossed.
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It seems an incredibly risky plan to expect or rely on the Halifax class to carry on for another 8 years for the first of its replacements and 20 for the last. As well as maybe expensive?
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The fleet of surface combatants like destroyers and frigates will almost certainly shrink before/if it recovers to planned numbers.
Oldgateboatdriver
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Unless someone decides to get on with the Topshee CDC .... like....NOW!
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realistically how quick can that happen?
choose a yard
choose a design
build out
first of class delivered same time as HMCS Fraser?
one a year after?
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Is the question not, can we build a CDC hull in 6ish yrs but can get a propulsion system dropped in it in 6yrs, can we get armaments dropped on it in 6yrs? Do we ‘lift and shift’ the weapons from a Halifax onto the new hull as a stop gap measure while retiring that Halifax? With the longer term plan of replacing all the 57’s in a timely fashion but using the existing ones for now? Same with the other weapons systems. Brings down initial costs and timelines.
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Right now we're still determining capability and discussions are happening on crewing. Around 100 with 20 training bunks and 15 to 20 mission specialists possibly. I saw some discussions on that. Basically they want a lot of capability with not enough crew. We'll need to throw out the normal crewing paradigms and think outside the box on this platform.
I would say 6 to 8 years before we see a hull in the water and the timelines I have saw more aggressive than that. We'll see.
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Start by getting hulls in the water to keep crews. Add the weaponry as the opportunity presents itself. They will be good enough for drug runners and shadow tankers. More kit than a Kingston.
Take a look at that Kongsberg package of modules.
Oldgateboatdriver
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If you make this a priority and add "RFN" spirit to it now, you can have one in the water in four years and one every 8 months after that. It's a government call.
The Brits started building corvettes as an emergency program 6 months before WWII, and had about 40 built before the war really broke out (i.e. the end of the phony war).
The Brits started building corvettes as an emergency program 6 months before WWII, and had about 40 built before the war really broke out (i.e. the end of the phony war).
so you are getting 1 1/2 a year instead of the 1/2, Go for it
Aren't those issues that can be resolved whilst the welders are at work? Choosing the hull should have been underway for at least a couple of years now so they should be able to finalize that real quick. Figure out staffing as you go along and keep the first 3 basic so you have no elaborate Canadianization to slow you down
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Or maybe .. hear me out … maybe they take the opportunity to build up the shore and support establishment for the new and emerging Navy.
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We don't have enough personnel to staff a project completely and I believe that was mentioned here a few times before. We generally don't take a half assed approach to building a ship because that's exactly what you are doing, we don't figure out out things on the fly either. We don't even know if we had a design chosen which we don't, where it would even be built. Its not even funded. That's a lot of things to get into place before we can even think of cutting steel.
quadrapiper
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Where (if at all) does sea time factor into that, as far as building instructor cadres etc., and is a CDC doing presence/training/whatever work a useful platform for that sea time?
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Seems to be verging on a Frigate sized vessel (I know they don't go by tonnage, but I bet politicians and TBS Bureaucrats likley do) at 3,000DWT, which also limits the shipyards they can be built in and no Polar Class rating.
One option is to contract a foreign shipyard that can build right now a proven existing large corvette/small frigate to produce 3 hulls to fill the gap till the RCD's come online in numbers and allow us to decommission the worst of the Halifax's. No real Canadianzation of the design, just speed into service that counts. Then sell those ships off to a friendly nation when we have enough RCD/CDC in the water.
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Someone else has to answer. I do know that the RCD program requires a few new MOC for the RCN skilled trades and operators. Somehow they have to find the bodies to staff the old navy and the new one coming into place. That means an awful lot of shore based training and sea training. For an organization that has been shrinking under stress for 20 years, to 15 years of ramping up it’s going to cause a lot of organizational stress.
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Its already causing organizational stress and that's just for the new platforms that just finished building and planned. As part of the Sea Training organization that looks after Patrol which is AOPV's and Kingston Class we are flat out busy. Especially after closing down West Coast Patrol Sea Training. This means we are on the West Coast at times looking after their AOPV. Keeps us hopping.
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Yes it will a heavily armed combatant much like a Halifax Class, just with less people. We keep going back to the build a few hulls to tide us over and bild offshore solution. Yes its a solution, just not a realistic one for all kinds of reasons.
