Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ

[Kirkhill]

Smaller crews with increased automation means more complex systems and additional maintenance.

If we suck at maintaining less complex things with more people, adding complexity and having less people isn't going to make it better. It only adds capability if it can deploy and stay off the wall in a sustainable way, just like aircraft are only useful if you have enough maintainers and operators to use them. It takes a lot to keep a ship ready to go to stay on station for a month and keep the props turning, and you can't just preserve it and hope for the best. It's a steel assembly floating in salt water; rust never sleeps

This stuck in my mind.

Then I remembered the Sandowns. In service since 1989. Still in service in 2023 - 34 years later.

Made of fibreglass. Some decommissioned then recommissioned in someone else's navy. Estonia, Romania and then, this year, Ukraine.

These small (53 m; 174 ft) fibreglass vessels are single role mine hunters (SRMH) rather than minesweepers. Twelve ships were built for the Royal Navy and three ships were exported to Saudi Arabia. Three Royal Navy vessels were decommissioned following the Strategic Defence Review in 2003; Sandown (January 2005), Inverness (April 2005) and Bridport (July 2004). A further ship, Cromer, was decommissioned and transferred to a training role at the Britannia Royal Naval College in Dartmouth in 2001 as Hindostan.

The three decommissioned vessels were sold to Estonia in September 2006. They were re-equipped with TCS (Tactical Control System) and the Atlas Elektronik Seafox ROV for mine disposal. The sonar system was also updated. The first ship (ex-Sandown), delivered in 2007, has been named Admiral Cowan,[5] the second (ex-Inverness), was delivered in 2008 and named Sakala and the last (ex-Bridport) named Ugandi in 2009.

The largest fibreglass ship to date?

Meet the Majesty 175, the World’s Largest Fiberglass Superyacht

Gulf Craft’s new 175-footer claims the world title by just three feet.

robbreport.com

Fibreglass hull with 12x Mk41s = 96 missiles afloat in company.

 

[Underway]

It will be built on part of the sports field apparently.

Right beside the warfare centre does make sense. The building beside the centre is falling apart anyways and needs to be flattened and rebuilt. And its not considered historic.

 

[KevinB]

Interesting Aegis option

PAC-3

Discover PAC-3: The world leader in air defense missile systems integration, delivering unparalleled capability for warfighters in multi-domain environments.

www.lockheedmartin.com

 

[Kirkhill]

This is the third time in the last week or so that I have seen reference to the pulse-jet as a low cost alternative to both conventional rockets and jets.

The V-1 is back in vogue?

Argus As 014 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

NASA's rotating detonation rocket engine posts record test results

Explosions get you much more bang from your fuel buck than combustion – if your engine can withstand them. NASA believes the rotating detonation engine could be the future of deep space travel, and it's getting strong results in prototype testing.

newatlas.com

Ukrainian startup develops pulse jet-powered cruise missile

Ukraine's enthusiasts from PARS startup are developing a reliable, low-cost cruise missile with a pulsejet engine. Concept artwork supplied by the startup shows a hybrid of cruise missiles and decoy drones. The developers say the new missile, called the Trembita, is being created as a low-cost...

defence-blog.com

They seem to run a bit hot.

 

[lenaitch]

They seem to run a bit hot.

And noisy. They are comparatively quite simple.

 

[Underway]

Interesting Aegis option

PAC-3

Discover PAC-3: The world leader in air defense missile systems integration, delivering unparalleled capability for warfighters in multi-domain environments.

www.lockheedmartin.com

Lockeed's response to Raytheon dominance I think. I've never even heard of that system.

 

[Kirkhill]

Lockeed's response to Raytheon dominance I think. I've never even heard of that system.

It seems to have been around a bit as an upgrade to Patriot.

First unit equipped seven years ago in 2016

https://asc.army.mil/web/portfolio-item/ms-pac-3_mse/

Commonality among missile launchers and across platforms seems to be a growing trend.

 

[KevinB]

Lockeed's response to Raytheon dominance I think. I've never even heard of that system.

Get out more

As @Kirkhill pointed out it’s a Patriot missile option.

 

[TacticalTea]

There's been lots of talk about it (PATRIOTs and their upgrades in general) in the context of the Ukraine war.

 

[KevinB]

There's been lots of talk about it (PATRIOTs and their upgrades in general) in the context of the Ukraine war.

Interestingly enough the Wiki has a really good break down, albeit not 100% correct

MIM-104 Patriot - Wikipedia

Radars and linkages are upgraded, as the PAC-3 is not really just another missile option for Patriot based on the threat.

The Army tends to call the missile from the MEADS (JV with LocMart and MBDA) the PAC-3, but the missile is the MIM-104F, the upgraded Patriot is the PAC-3, the PAC-3 MSE was LocMarts missile for MEADS, adopted for Patriot, not a Patriot missile adopted for MEADS


If that makes sense?

But the Link16 aspects is where I suspect the Aegis folks may get interested.

 

[Good2Golf]

But the Link16 aspects is where I suspect the Aegis folks may get interested.

Interesting that L16 is the primary and not L11/22 for the naval side of things.

 

[Underway]

Interesting that L16 is the primary and not L11/22 for the naval side of things.

L11 is not going to be supported in the next few years. L16 has specific hardware for naval units. That's about as far as I can go before I get a knock at the door...

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Interesting that L16 is the primary and not L11/22 for the naval side of things.

Yes.

There are….reasons.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Jezebel!!!!

 

[Good2Golf]

Must have been snoozing on the maritime side…doesn’t 22 still have legs?

Separately, I’m amused/frustrated/disappointed when people think JTIDS/MIDS is the be all to end all link. It does what it does, but it isn’t all that and a bag of chips.

 

[Underway]

Must have been snoozing on the maritime side…doesn’t 22 still have legs?

Separately, I’m amused/frustrated/disappointed when people think JTIDS/MIDS is the be all to end all link. It does what it does, but it isn’t all that and a bag of chips.

22 has legs. RCN ships carry all three TDL's. Just use them to talk to different people in different places.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

22 has legs. RCN ships carry all three TDL's. Just use them to talk to different people in different places.

Beyond this point, there is shoaling waters….

 

[Good2Golf]

Beyond this point, there is shoaling waters….

…and not just for the RHIB…

 

[suffolkowner]

Adding firepower to the Type 26 Frigate | Navy Lookout

www.navylookout.com

more about beefing up the type 26/CSC/Hunter

 

[Rainbow1910]

CRCN VAdm Topshee had some comments about the CSC program and the Halifax class in his most recent video posted above. Much of this is known to many of us however, I thought it would be good to post the link and a excerpt to keep others in the loop.

"The Halifax class frigates are and will remain our only surface combatant for atleast the next 15 years. Why? Because we cannot retire the Halifax class until we have atleast 4 Canadian Surface Combatants certified for operations. We have made great progress in the past year because of some tough decisions to prioritize schedule over initial capability, and I am very confident that the first CSC will deliver early in the next decade. This is a massively complex ship, so it will take 2-3 years of tests and trials to make sure it works well enough to deploy the first one, and years more to have enough to relieve the burden from the Halifax class. We must therefore find a way to keep the Halifax class going until atleast 2024. Given that they have reached their design life of 30 years and that all 12 are absolutely required to meet Canada's commitments to NATO and the Indo-Pacific strategy, this is a very considerable challenge and the reason why the RCN consumes such a massive share of national procurement funds. I wish it was not so, but I am afraid there is simply no other choice. These ships (Halifax class) play a vital role in ensuring that sailors retain the unique core combat skills that can only be developed, exercised and used in surface combat ships. Today's Halifax class ships will train the crews of tomorrow's warships. There is no other path."

The comment about 'tough decisions to prioritize schedule over capability' is an interesting one, you can really see that the CRCN is heavily pitching the idea that there is no other options and Canada desperately needs the Halifax class to keep soldiering on.