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Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ

The speed of these looks to be higher than what I’ve read on the Type 26’s, though the overall range of them looks to be fairly less. I’d think we’d be looking for both, speed and range, since the Halifax’s have nicely both.
 
Any one frigate would do.  Except Navantia's and Alion's have been built and sailed before.
 
As an Army officer, the Type 26 seems to be the best interarm choice. It can accommodate the Cyclone without issue, but the Chinook can also operate from the flight deck. It has the stern mission bay that can launch RHIB, but also the integrated mission bay. This mission bay offers so much flexibility that I am salivating. The interarms operations between the Army and the Navy is currently a joke. Getting down nets into assault boat is not amphibious operations...

Personally, I think that we missed the boat on the 2 Mistral (pun intented). That would have been a great capability for the CAF. Anyhow, my 2 cents as an Army Officer.
 
MTShaw said:
Any one frigate would do.  Except Navantia's and Alion's have been built and sailed before.

Navantia is only bidder to have not yet released a rendering publicly, correct?
 
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Just looking at the renderings it appears both the Alison and Navantia include (2) RAM launchers each while the BAE submission has none.

Can we assume the renderings match the bids to that level of detail?
 
Czech_pivo said:
The speed of these looks to be higher than what I’ve read on the Type 26’s, though the overall range of them looks to be fairly less. I’d think we’d be looking for both, speed and range, since the Halifax’s have nicely both.

if they use the same or simular output it will be 30 knots max(at least that's what the LCF/DZP is capable of.(If you're talking about the Alion bid.)
 
MTShaw said:
I would assume that Alion would modify it for greater range.
As OGBD has correctly guessed, I'm not a sailor... nor am I a tinker, tailor or a soldier.
In order to modify it for a greater range, one would have to either; a) lengthen the boat in order to increase the size of its fuel capacity, b) remove some other internal compartments or storage areas to again increase its fuel capacity, c) option A plus add additional capacity for food/water to compensate the added range, or d) options A or C plus increase the size of the engines (due to a longer, heavier ship), in order to maintain the 30kn speed.
Now, if this is correct, I would assume that lengthening a ship (and its design) is no easier feat, for whatever added space/capacity occurs below deck must have something in turn placed over it above deck.  Now, this might be great if added capability is what is needed above decks because the existing design is lacking, but if that's the case are we not getting into the realm of a redesign and not an 'off the shelf' design? The DZP frigate is only 5m shorter than the Type 26 - how many more meters would we have to lengthen the boat in order to accommodate the larger fuel capacity?

 
@Czech_pivo

The problem with the range comparison between the GCS, HALIFAX and DZP is that, according to wikipedia, the DZP qualifies it's range with a speed. HALIFAX and the GCS do not.

Apples and Oranges.
 
MTShaw said:
@Czech_pivo

The problem with the range comparison between the GCS, HALIFAX and DZP is that, according to wikipedia, the DZP qualifies it's range with a speed. HALIFAX and the GCS do not.

Apples and Oranges.
Got ya - Cheers - Learning lot's.
 
Does the Alion DZP design incorporate a mission bay/flex deck?
 
MTShaw said:
The problem with the range comparison between the GCS, HALIFAX and DZP is that, according to wikipedia, the DZP qualifies it's range with a speed. HALIFAX and the GCS do not.
The first edition of Jane’s Fighting Ships Recognition Handbook says that the Halifax-class frigate had a range of 7 100 miles at 15 knots.  This was before the big refits.  Incidentally, I am against stretching the Alion design.  If the Royal Canadian Navy wants range, I would rather have the design with the best range be chosen than stretch the Alion design.  The more modifications, the greater the risk of delays.  The more these surface combatants are delayed, the higher the cost.
 
The Globe and Mail is reporting that "The French and Italian governments are officially backing an unsolicited proposal to supply 15 military vessels to the Royal Canada Navy outside of the ongoing competition for the $60-billion contract, documents show ... [and] ... The French and Italian ministers of defence submitted a letter last month to their Canadian counterpart, Harjit Sajjan, stating that they "fully support" the joint bid by Naval Group and Fincantieri to replace the RCN's existing frigates and retired destroyers. The support from the French and Italian governments could give additional weight to the long-shot proposal, which aims to bypass the official procurement process for new Canadian Surface Combatants."

The MND is, of course, also being pressured, with equal vigour, by the ministers representing the other bidders.

The article suggests that Naval Group and Fincantieri "hail mary" bid can work only if none of the other three bids, submitted through the proper channels, are fully compliant.

Any guesses on how "good" the others bids will be?
 
E.R. Campbell said:
Any guesses on how "good" the others bids will be?

They will be fully compliant.  The process allowed for pre-bid submission compliance checks. I believe this is why the deadline for the bid was extended at least one of the times. There is also the option of a one off "fix your error" option if there is something not compliant that is found in a bid.  I assume this isn't there to hold up the process just ensure that a bid isn't rejected for a dumb submission error or the overlook of a minor compliancy (Damn it Bloggins, what do you mean you forgot to submit the pump specs for the fire main!).
 
So it would seem that those who said that the "hail mary" is, in reality, just a "parting shot" are right ... the French and Italians will focus, now, on the Australian and US projects?
 
This bit from Nov 27 is interesting....

Speaking notes for National Shipbuilding Strategy technical briefing on Canadian Surface Combatant request for proposal

The evaluation of the bids will be multi-staged.

The first stage is a completeness check where bids will be reviewed to ensure that they are complete and nothing has been missed. Bidders will be given an opportunity to replace any missing elements.

The first pass of true evaluation comes in Stage 2.

In this Stage bids will be evaluated with respect to the Technical (how well the proposals meet Canada’s technical requirements) and Value Proposition (the quality of the bidder’s commitments to bring benefits to Canada and to incorporate Canadian content into the CSC design) elements of their bids.

During this evaluation bidders will need to demonstrate compliance with the identified Mandatory Compliance criteria and conformance with the other required criteria. Bids will be scored in accordance with the Evaluation Plan.

Again in the interests of maximizing the competition we will give any bidder that has not demonstrated compliance or conformance an opportunity to fix their proposal, a process we refer to as the Cure Process. This Cure process will be conducted in the following manner:

As evaluation teams complete each section of evaluation, feedback will be provided to each of the bidders regarding their bid. This feedback will explain what areas of the bid were found to be non-compliant or non-conformant and why. Bidders will be able to ask questions regarding the feedback they receive

Once all the sections of Technical and Value Proposition evaluation are completed and the final feedback has been provided to bidders the Final Submission Deadline will be established and communicated to bidders This date will be at least 4 weeks after the final feedback. During this period Canada and Irving Shipbuilding will respond to any questions asked regarding the bid feedback provided

On the Final Submission Deadline bidders will need to resubmit the affected portions of their bids and will need submit their financial proposals
The evaluation teams will then do the required re-evaluations based on the updated bids

There will only be one pass through the Cure Process
Any bidder that is still deemed non-compliant with any of the identified Mandatory Compliance criteria after the Cure Period will be eliminated from the competition.

If at least one bidder is compliant and has demonstrated conformance with all the other required criteria then those bidders’ scores will be considered final and the evaluation process will continue with Stage 2 score weighting using these scores. In this scenario any non-conforming bid will be set aside.

However, if after the Cure Process none of the compliant bidders have demonstrated full conformance with all the required criteria then non-conformance adjustments will be made to each of the compliant bids’ corresponding technical risk scores and the evaluation process will continue with Stage 2 score weighting using these adjusted scores.

The resultant Stage 2 scores of compliant bids will be weighted 75% Technical /25% Value Proposition (the highest Value Proposition weighting to date) and the top 2 bids (plus any that are very close) will move on to the next stage of evaluation.

The other bids will be set aside.

Those bids that have passed through will be scored for the remaining evaluation elements of Design Maturity, Software Capability and Financial.
Each bid’s raw scores for Technical and Value Proposition from the earlier stage will be retained and reweighted.

All the Stage 3 scores will be weighted and added together to get the bidder’s Total score. The final weightings will be Technical 42%, Value Proposition 15%, Design Maturity 19%, Software 1%, and Financial 23%.

http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/app-acq/amd-dp/mer-sea/sncn-nss/nouvelles-news/2017-11-27-eng.html



 
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