Canadian Troops Surround Taliban

[warspite]

I don't like this tactic. Closing in on an enemy on all sides will make the enemy fight to the death alot fiercer. It is always advisable to provide the enemy an opening or an escape route. I think I got this from Art of War or something...

In all fairness would this not apply to conventional forces, with insurgents it seems to make more sense to trap them and make sure they can't escape before you attack but that's just me. I claim no real life military experience or strategic knowledge

 

[Scratch_043]

Also, the problem with 'waiting it out' is that it would give them time to disguise themselves as the part of the group of 'innocents' around them, allowing them to escape (or, more dangerous scenario, they can mount ambush offensives on the troops coming in after them.)

 

[ClaytonD]

Why not just burn the feilds closest to the Taliban stronghold, compensate the farmers and assure them that the feilds would grow back the next year? it would also give our guys a clear line of fire, and give any fleeing Taliban nothing to hide in. It's an old tactic and probably not very useful here because of the hostage thing. Of course if it's green pot plants then they won't burn and burning the brown ones has 'adverse effects.' Though in a perfect world if you were to burn the feilds and the Taliban saw the tanks aiming at them out of RPG range they would be inclined to surrender.

Well, I'm only in Geography 12. But I'm pretty damn sure that if you scorched the fields, the plants would NOT grow back next year. In fact it could wreck the land for a long time.

Now of course this depends on climate, soil, and effects of the burning... Even then, probably not a good idea if you want the plants to grow back.

 

[Kirkhill]

Clayton - burning stubble in fields is a well-known method of clearing fields in the fall.  On the prairies we occasionally have car accidents because of smoke from intentional fires obliterating the view.

Historically it has been a common way to return nutrients to the land and archaically it was used by natives to clear forested land for agriculture and to manage berry patches.

 

[KevinB]

I dont like this tactic. Closing in on an enemy on all sides will make the enemy fight to the death alot fiercer. It is always advisable to provide the enemy an opening or an escape route. I think I got this from Art of War or something...

Its a good thing no one is listening to you then...


P.S. how can a fight to the death get fiercer? A fight to the afterlife?

 

[rmacqueen]

Keep in mind, as well, that the hardcore Taliban are not going to just up and surrender because they are surrounded.  We are dealing with fanatics and conventional thinking goes out the window in that case.  One has only to look at Hitler's Germany to see the effects of fanaticism.  Under conventional thinking the allies should not have had to reduce Berlin to rubble but the fantics refused surrender even though it was obvious they were defeated.

The trick is going to be to separate the ideological Taliban from those who are simply fighting for the Taliban.  If they can start to do that then the morale will breakdown and the part time fighters will give up, which will also give the "hostages" a chance to get out as well. 

In that regard, IMHO, I think you will see a lot of phsy ops in the next few days with the noose slowly tightening around them.  Nothing affects morale more than watching tanks driving around with impunity and making it obvious you have nowhere to go.  I can also see the Leo's firing a few harmless shots into the area to drive this point home.  Heavy metal can be pretty intimidating when you are on the receiving end ;D

 

[Timmy!]

Heavy metal can be pretty intimidating when you are on the receiving end ;D

Ride of the Valkyries from Die Walküre, by Wagner. Just let the panzer play too.... it would be a nice show.  8)


http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/10177

It's an older photo... but it makes a point.  :warstory:

 

[George Wallace]

I dont like this tactic. Closing in on an enemy on all sides will make the enemy fight to the death alot fiercer. It is always advisable to provide the enemy an opening or an escape route. I think I got this from Art of War or something...

That, next to someone trolling the site, is the silliest thing I have heard all day.  Why would we want to allow fanatical terrorists the oportunity to escape and be able to fight another day?  Just because you read something in the "Art of War", doesn't make it written in stone......  As an MP, would you let a criminal have an escape route out of a crime scene if you had him cornered?

 

[mainerjohnthomas]

The recruiters for these terrorist butt monkeys are always talking about their ability to hit and fade, how all our conventional might is nothing compared to their faith, ruthlessness, and cleverness.  Right now that conventional might is grinding slowly and inexorably as a glacier over a shrinking pocket of increasing terrified terrorists.  How easy is it to sell hit and fade against the example of trapped rats brought to bay and hunted down to the last rat dead or in irons?  Allowing even the illusion of an escape route, even if no living terrorist escaped the cordon would weaken the psychological effect of a total defeat.  If we are passing along quotes to justify our position on this issue, I would favour Napoleon in this situation "The morale is to physical as three is to one".  How much more true is that of unconventional forces without the strong national and regimental traditions of service to keep them on the firing line?  This is not a blow against 700-900 insurgents, this is a blow to the heart and soul of the enemy. 

 

[Old Sweat]

At most, one could be allowed to escape to take the word back to those who wern't in the trap.

 

[mainerjohnthomas]

There is no reason good enough to let one escape.  One can give word of the insurgents fate just fine lead away in irons to await trial, and followed by a flat-deck displaying the weapons born by the slain.  Similar to the old Roman triumphs, and with a similar message.

 

[Shamrock]

I dont like this tactic. Closing in on an enemy on all sides will make the enemy fight to the death alot fiercer. It is always advisable to provide the enemy an opening or an escape route. I think I got this from Art of War or something...

How will an enemy who is willing to use suicide in his normal operations fight any more fiercely when cornered? 

Here, I'll give you ShamrockTzu's Art of War:

1.  When fighting an enemy that does not fear death, do not fear to deliver it.  Should that enemy be given an escape, they will take it and return to fight just as fiercly as before but with the added danger of now knowing your tactics.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

You don't need to let one go.  They have cell phones and other means of communication to get the word out.  Their buddies know they are trapped, have no doubt of that.

 

[old man neri]

You don't need to let one go.  They have cell phones and other means of communication to get the word out.  Their buddies know they are trapped, have no doubt of that.

They also watch the news I am sure. Hell, some of them probably troll this very forum.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Another quote, seeing as we're in the mood: "Never do an enemy a small injury."

 

[ClaytonD]

Clayton - burning stubble in fields is a well-known method of clearing fields in the fall.  On the prairies we occasionally have car accidents because of smoke from intentional fires obliterating the view.

Historically it has been a common way to return nutrients to the land and archaically it was used by natives to clear forested land for agriculture and to manage berry patches.

Gotcha,  I'll do my homework next time.

 

[CrazyCanuck]

Well if the Taliban are surrounded they aren't going anywhere, so NATO could have a bit of fun with them. Give them a few sleepless nights of Tanks continually circling them, have a couple of fighter jets do low level passes over them,  shoot above their heads, pound the area with artillery, drop some propaganda and just make the point that we decide when they die. It could be very useful from an intelligence point of view to see at what point they either A)snap (try and fight their way out or something similar) or B) surrender

 

[Timmy!]

so NATO could have a bit of fun with them.

Waste tax payer money.... noooo....  ;D




Giv er!  :evil:

 

[darmil]

Watch your six and give them hell boys!

 

[vonGarvin]

Although everyone likes to be on the side of a winning team, personally, I'd like to keep the bravado down.  I just wish these guys success.  And a safe Christmas.  As I type this, it's around 3 am on Christmas morning on the front line.  God Speed to the men and women over there.