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CaroleNF
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I‘m looking for some examples of Canadian vs. US military terms, e.g. recce - recon, and other things that are roughly equivalent but are called by different names.
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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For what period?
In World War Two it was a lot more diverse.
Modern examples include
GOC - General Officer Commanding (Canadian)
Commanding General (US)
OC - Officer Commanding (Canadian term for officer in charge of a company)
Company Commander (US)
The US had armoured battalions, we call an armoured unit of the same size a "regiment". A US armoured battalion is made up of companies, our "regiments" are made up of "squadrons".
Canadians abbreviate Private as PTE, Americans do it as PVT.
There are many others. What kind of project are you working on?
In World War Two it was a lot more diverse.
Modern examples include
GOC - General Officer Commanding (Canadian)
Commanding General (US)
OC - Officer Commanding (Canadian term for officer in charge of a company)
Company Commander (US)
The US had armoured battalions, we call an armoured unit of the same size a "regiment". A US armoured battalion is made up of companies, our "regiments" are made up of "squadrons".
Canadians abbreviate Private as PTE, Americans do it as PVT.
There are many others. What kind of project are you working on?
C
CaroleNF
Guest
I‘m interested in contemporary terms. Why I‘m asking is, I have a son in the Canadian Army Reserves, and had a letter from a relative who‘s in the US military, asking "how‘s the family GI?" He wondered if they were called GI‘s in Canada. Before replying I started thinking that there are probably many instances of the same things being referred to by different terms, that he might find interesting. I seem to remember seeing a posting/article somewhere a few weeks ago, mentioning "Leftenant-Lootenant", "Iltis-Hummer" and some other items relating to military equipment, practices, titles, etc. But I can‘t find that posting now.
Thanks for you reply, and I‘d like to hear if you have more to add.
Thanks for you reply, and I‘d like to hear if you have more to add.
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There are numerous examples. For instance:
We don‘t enlist we‘re recruted (Thats why we have NCMs as opposed to enlisted men. (no GI in Canada either)
combats as opposed to fatiuges
units not outfits
messes as opposed to clubs
There many more if your intrested
We don‘t enlist we‘re recruted (Thats why we have NCMs as opposed to enlisted men. (no GI in Canada either)
combats as opposed to fatiuges
units not outfits
messes as opposed to clubs
There many more if your intrested
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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I‘d be careful about slang - much of our slang does come from the States (the word "outfit" to describe a unit had been used in Canadian military circles for at least 60 years, though probably not nearly as commonly as in the States). Some American slang has made its way into the Canadian military via US TV and movies - ie we call infantrymen "grunts", a term used by the US Army in Vietnam. It‘s all part of the move away from the British influence (a move I and many don‘t like, but it is happening nonetheless).
Excellent point about EMs. In the States, non-commissioned soldiers are called "Enlisted Men". Here they are "Non Commissioned Members." Some people still use the term "Other Ranks", which was in use before Unification.
Also, in Canada we have what we call a Guard of Honour - in the States they have Honor Guards.
In Canada, the flag is flown at half-staff. In the States, it is "half mast." (I hope this is right).
Excellent point about EMs. In the States, non-commissioned soldiers are called "Enlisted Men". Here they are "Non Commissioned Members." Some people still use the term "Other Ranks", which was in use before Unification.
Also, in Canada we have what we call a Guard of Honour - in the States they have Honor Guards.
In Canada, the flag is flown at half-staff. In the States, it is "half mast." (I hope this is right).
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More on the subject:
We go on exercise, they go on manuvers
Drillwise, we have rigt, left, and about turns whereas they have right, left and about faces.
infantry sections (Can) vs infantry squads (US)
NCO (Can) vs NonCom (US)
Detachment Commander (Arty - Can) vs Crew Chief (US)
As to thge other points - Half mast is correct here and the new term for ORs is NCMs (Non commissioned members which includes Pte to CWO as opposed to Ptes & Cpls for ORs)
We go on exercise, they go on manuvers
Drillwise, we have rigt, left, and about turns whereas they have right, left and about faces.
infantry sections (Can) vs infantry squads (US)
NCO (Can) vs NonCom (US)
Detachment Commander (Arty - Can) vs Crew Chief (US)
As to thge other points - Half mast is correct here and the new term for ORs is NCMs (Non commissioned members which includes Pte to CWO as opposed to Ptes & Cpls for ORs)
Michael Dorosh
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Canadians "Stand at Ease", Americans have "Parade Rest."
Americans use "Canteens", we use "waterbottles".
Americans use "clips", we use "magazines"
Americans wear "shoulder sleeve insignia", we have "shoulder flashes"
Americans wear "dog tags", we wear "Identity discs" (even though they have been the same rectangular pattern (and not discs at all) since 1950 and the Korean War.)
American civvies call it a Hummer - US soldiers call it a HUMV. My friend bought one surplus (and spent a year trying to get it across the border) - they ride more like an MLVW than an Iltis - diesel powered with hard seats and very, very loud!
If a Canadian puts his hands in his pockets while in uniform, he will be yelled at about "American gloves." And if he is chewing gum, he will be asked (not nicely) "Are you an American?" before being ordered to get rid of it.
American fatigues are also called BDUs (for Battle Dress Uniform). The Canadian Army wore Battle Dress also - but stopped in the late 60s and early 70s.
Canadians wear toques - so do Americans, but they have never heard the word "toque" before.
Americans eat MREs (Meal, Ready to Eat), and Canadians eat IMPs.
In Canada, a "Regiment" is an administrative entity in most cases, in the States the term denotes a specific unit equal to a Canadian "Brigade".
A Canadian Regimental Sergeant Major is the top NCM in a unit - in the States the top (enlisted) dog in a battalion is the First Sergeant (or "Top").
In Canada, Warrant Officer grades are a natural progression of the rank structure, in the States they are more like specialist ranks. (Can someone explain them to me?)
Canadian NCOs wear "chevrons" or "hooks", American NCOs wear "stripes" with "rockers".
Canadians wear "Cap Badges" (or "cap brass" as some call it), Americans wear "Hat Badges"
In World War Two, Canadians laughed at Americans for using "unmilitary" terms like "5/4 ton truck" (instead of "15 hundred weight"), "gasoline" (instead of "petrol"), "flashlight" (instead of "torch"), "wrench" (instead of "spanner") etc., but things have come full circle and the Canadian military now uses the same "civvie" terminology the Americans did.
We honour the dead or end the day with "Last Post", Americans do it with "Taps".
Americans use "Canteens", we use "waterbottles".
Americans use "clips", we use "magazines"
Americans wear "shoulder sleeve insignia", we have "shoulder flashes"
Americans wear "dog tags", we wear "Identity discs" (even though they have been the same rectangular pattern (and not discs at all) since 1950 and the Korean War.)
American civvies call it a Hummer - US soldiers call it a HUMV. My friend bought one surplus (and spent a year trying to get it across the border) - they ride more like an MLVW than an Iltis - diesel powered with hard seats and very, very loud!
If a Canadian puts his hands in his pockets while in uniform, he will be yelled at about "American gloves." And if he is chewing gum, he will be asked (not nicely) "Are you an American?" before being ordered to get rid of it.
American fatigues are also called BDUs (for Battle Dress Uniform). The Canadian Army wore Battle Dress also - but stopped in the late 60s and early 70s.
Canadians wear toques - so do Americans, but they have never heard the word "toque" before.
Americans eat MREs (Meal, Ready to Eat), and Canadians eat IMPs.
In Canada, a "Regiment" is an administrative entity in most cases, in the States the term denotes a specific unit equal to a Canadian "Brigade".
A Canadian Regimental Sergeant Major is the top NCM in a unit - in the States the top (enlisted) dog in a battalion is the First Sergeant (or "Top").
In Canada, Warrant Officer grades are a natural progression of the rank structure, in the States they are more like specialist ranks. (Can someone explain them to me?)
Canadian NCOs wear "chevrons" or "hooks", American NCOs wear "stripes" with "rockers".
Canadians wear "Cap Badges" (or "cap brass" as some call it), Americans wear "Hat Badges"
In World War Two, Canadians laughed at Americans for using "unmilitary" terms like "5/4 ton truck" (instead of "15 hundred weight"), "gasoline" (instead of "petrol"), "flashlight" (instead of "torch"), "wrench" (instead of "spanner") etc., but things have come full circle and the Canadian military now uses the same "civvie" terminology the Americans did.
We honour the dead or end the day with "Last Post", Americans do it with "Taps".
T
tinman
Guest
Michael,
I always thought Officer Commanding was (officially) used to refer to regiment/battalion commanders. Do you know what was used officially at this level?
Martin Schenkel
I always thought Officer Commanding was (officially) used to refer to regiment/battalion commanders. Do you know what was used officially at this level?
Martin Schenkel
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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Commanding Officer
M
Mr Magoo
Guest
The Wo ranks in the States are used to employ personnel
into specialist positions that would normally require a
commission to occupy. For example, pilots are often WOs.
They‘re outside the normal career progression, you won‘t
make Wing Commander as a WO, but you‘ll fly.
into specialist positions that would normally require a
commission to occupy. For example, pilots are often WOs.
They‘re outside the normal career progression, you won‘t
make Wing Commander as a WO, but you‘ll fly.
C
CaroleNF
Guest
Thanks for your info, guys. It was very helpful and interesting.
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I‘m Richard
From the nethelands.
i‘have one question around the canadian dogtag
Ask where is the groove for at the underside of the id plate.
richard
From the nethelands.
i‘have one question around the canadian dogtag
Ask where is the groove for at the underside of the id plate.
richard
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Another big difference would be the Rank vs. appointment debate.
In the US, there are Sergeant Major, Command Sergeant Major, and Sergeant Major of Army, which are each separate ranks. In Canada, a Chief Warrant Officer (CWO) would be doing all of those jobs. He won‘t get promoted to another rank, but would be appointed to a higher position.
In the US, there are Sergeant Major, Command Sergeant Major, and Sergeant Major of Army, which are each separate ranks. In Canada, a Chief Warrant Officer (CWO) would be doing all of those jobs. He won‘t get promoted to another rank, but would be appointed to a higher position.
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Whether or not they are all E-9, there are different names, insignia, and positions for each. Whereas a CWO is a CWO whether he‘s a CSM, RSM, Base SM, Brigade SM, or the SM of the Army or the CF.
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Carole,
As you can see it ain‘t as easy and simple as that. Our cultures have become integrated over the years and that obviously has included our respective military‘s with some terms crossing and recrossing the border.
Maj. Baker correct me if I‘m wrong but wouldn‘t one way of looking at the Warrant Officer system in the US be akin to CFR‘s (Commisioned from the Ranks) up here, where a long serving Senior NCO is elevated to a higher position. It‘s my experience that CFR‘s are not as prevelant in the US and here and the end result is often similar. Many CFR‘s often find themselves in specialist or technical positions (QM etc.)
As you can see it ain‘t as easy and simple as that. Our cultures have become integrated over the years and that obviously has included our respective military‘s with some terms crossing and recrossing the border.
Maj. Baker correct me if I‘m wrong but wouldn‘t one way of looking at the Warrant Officer system in the US be akin to CFR‘s (Commisioned from the Ranks) up here, where a long serving Senior NCO is elevated to a higher position. It‘s my experience that CFR‘s are not as prevelant in the US and here and the end result is often similar. Many CFR‘s often find themselves in specialist or technical positions (QM etc.)
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Thanks Sherwood, I though it sounded like a plausible theory. Look at the Brits from whom much of our military traditions et all come from. There, at least going way back, CFR Officers were the exception rather than the rule.
Such individuals were not seen as "Gentlemen" and therefore by default found themselves in administrative or support (read specialist) roles such as QM etc. This may have actually been a good fit for some long serving Sgt. or WO who of course in twenty odd years service learned every dirty little trick about making a QM or BOR or Finance office or whatever run smoothly.
Even in more recent times with the loosening of the class structure in the UK one stills sees a preponderance of CFR‘s in such positions as opposed to "command" (ie Company/Squadron OC)roles.
Anyway just my two cents worth. Didn‘t mean to hi-jack the thread.
Such individuals were not seen as "Gentlemen" and therefore by default found themselves in administrative or support (read specialist) roles such as QM etc. This may have actually been a good fit for some long serving Sgt. or WO who of course in twenty odd years service learned every dirty little trick about making a QM or BOR or Finance office or whatever run smoothly.
Even in more recent times with the loosening of the class structure in the UK one stills sees a preponderance of CFR‘s in such positions as opposed to "command" (ie Company/Squadron OC)roles.
Anyway just my two cents worth. Didn‘t mean to hi-jack the thread.
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Quote:
Incorrect....I know what it means...take off you hoser, hows it goin eh? ...Americans wear knit caps, we don‘t wear anything french
Ummm don‘t you guys wear berets?
Incorrect....I know what it means...take off you hoser, hows it goin eh? ...Americans wear knit caps, we don‘t wear anything french
Ummm don‘t you guys wear berets?
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nexxyboi
Guest
I‘ve noticed that about 60% of what you‘ve all posted on here is bull****.
I‘ve only skimmed through. I will answer one question though.
In the US Army, a pay grade of E-4 can either be a Corporal (CPL) or Specialist (SPC).
Differences:
-CPL mainly in combat MOS.. SPC usually for rest
-CPL is NCO, SPC is not
-Personnel with 4 year degrees can enlist as SPCs
Usually, most will go up ranks as specialists then go straight up to E-5 Sergeant (SGT).
Some tracks do not have NCOs for the most part (i.e. musicians) and so it is common to have SPCs with pay grade above E-4, such as SPC-7 (which would normally correspond to a senior NCO, Sergeant First Class (or SFC)). It‘s complicated. LOL
I‘ve only skimmed through. I will answer one question though.
In the US Army, a pay grade of E-4 can either be a Corporal (CPL) or Specialist (SPC).
Differences:
-CPL mainly in combat MOS.. SPC usually for rest
-CPL is NCO, SPC is not
-Personnel with 4 year degrees can enlist as SPCs
Usually, most will go up ranks as specialists then go straight up to E-5 Sergeant (SGT).
Some tracks do not have NCOs for the most part (i.e. musicians) and so it is common to have SPCs with pay grade above E-4, such as SPC-7 (which would normally correspond to a senior NCO, Sergeant First Class (or SFC)). It‘s complicated. LOL
N
nexxyboi
Guest
"The Wo ranks in the States are used to employ personnel
into specialist positions that would normally require a
commission to occupy. For example, pilots are often WOs.
They‘re outside the normal career progression, you won‘t
make Wing Commander as a WO, but you‘ll fly."
Also only partially true. The AF does not have WO ranks, and all the pilots in the USAF are officers. 90% of pilots in the US Army are Warrant Officers, and they are all helicopter pilots. The Army has very few fixed wing aircraft. Navy, all pilots are officers as well.
into specialist positions that would normally require a
commission to occupy. For example, pilots are often WOs.
They‘re outside the normal career progression, you won‘t
make Wing Commander as a WO, but you‘ll fly."
Also only partially true. The AF does not have WO ranks, and all the pilots in the USAF are officers. 90% of pilots in the US Army are Warrant Officers, and they are all helicopter pilots. The Army has very few fixed wing aircraft. Navy, all pilots are officers as well.
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