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Canadian's ancient rights: gun ownership and a vote on taxes

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Canadian's ancient rights: gun ownership and a vote on taxes
April 30, 12:48 AMCanada Politics ExaminerBrian Lilley
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There was plenty of chatter about the ancient rights of Parliament this week as Commons Speaker Peter Milliken ruled that MPs had the ability to demand the Afghan detainee documents and that the government was obliged to supply them. It was, said one colleague, like the Roundheads of old England, another compared it to the Glorious Revolution which gave way to the English Bill of Rights of 1689.

That dusty old document, which I have never heard referenced before in these hallowed halls of Parliament is actually a cornerstone of our system of government, its passage marked the beginning of what we now view as the British form of constitutional monarchy. The bill sets limits on what the monarch, or in the Canadian context the prime minister and his cabinet, can do. Yet it also sets out rights for the people, including our ancient right to bear arms.

Canadians like to think that owning guns is a purely American thing, that it has never really been the Canadian way, not so. Beyond the fact that Canada was once a vast frontier land where people were regularly armed, one of our constitutional documents, which is how courts view the English Bill of Rights, clearly says the people, or at least certain people, may arm themselves for self-defence.

"That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law."

Now in true British fashion it does have the caveat not found in the later American Bill of Rights. Clearly no one will overturn the gun registry or restrictions on certain weapons with an appeal to the old bill, but it is a an interesting historical reference.

Another section of the English Bill of Rights that we sadly need reminding of in this day in age is the ancient idea of no taxation without representation.
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I fail to see how a vote in the Commons can over-ride the Security of Information Act.  As the SOIA was passed by the Commons and Senate and signed by the Governor General, it is law.  The only remedy for the opposition is a confidence vote.  The government governs, not the House of Commons.
 
Dennis Ruhl said:
I fail to see how a vote in the Commons can over-ride the Security of Information Act.  As the SOIA was passed by the Commons and Senate and signed by the Governor General, it is law.  The only remedy for the opposition is a confidence vote.  The government governs, not the House of Commons.

the government governs, only so long as the are favoured with the confidence of the house.  If I understand my basic poli sci classes (mandatory arts class) and the talking heads the have been dissecting this for days now, if Parliament says cough up the docs, that is what must be done (with reasonable and legal limits).  "Government" is subservient to Parliament and must do as they are directed.
 
Just like anything else involved in government though, things change and amendments can be made.

I don't understand where he's coming from with the gun argument though, as there is still a process in place for Canadians to have guns to defend themselves and their property ("suitable to their conditions"). 

No, you can't walk down the street at the High Ready (just in case) with a shotgun, but current laws allow you to have guns in your house so as I said I don't understand what he's saying by implying that this old document is all of a sudden going to allow us to have guns again.
 
Old and Tired said:
"Government" is subservient to Parliament and must do as they are directed.
Understood; however, the point made in a previous post is that there are existing laws that cannot be broken.  Just as a military commander has the caveat of lawful commands, so too must Parliament's direction: they cannot direct government to do x, if x is illegal.  The security of information act states, I suppose, that certain things cannot be shown to just anybody: MPs are just "anybodies", for the most part.
 
Is is amazing how little non-military people understand that some of this information really is a matter of life and death, because they're so used to working in an office/factory/rural environment where there's no reason to keep any secrets.

The example I always give my family and non-military friends is this (because it's absurd enough to be obviously fake but still gets the message across):

Say we have our ROEs that only allow us to fire missiles from the Predator if the guys setting up the IED are wearing a Boston Bruins hat backwards and they are setting it up on the side of the road closest to the sun.

We sit there with our fingers on the button waiting for all those things to line up, which is for us authorization to kill them because all of the criteria have been met.  And every time they wear that hat that way on that side of the road they get killed, and more of our soldiers and Afghan locals live.

Well now what happens if some civilian demands to have open access to everything we do and why we do it, and now those rules of ours become public.  Well obviously the insurgents are only going to set up IEDs on the other side of the road now wearing a Canadiens hat on, and we're fooked because we can't stop them anymore.  Thanks for making us give you our playbook for zero benefit.
 
Wow. 6 posts and the thread is already a friggin' train wreck

TrainWreck1.gif
 
recceguy said:
Wow. 6 posts and the thread is already a friggin' train wreck

Guilty!

A - B - C - D - E - F, and when I made post "F" it was a link to "E" but you are correct in that it doesn't resemble "A" much anymore.  Sorry.
 
          Now I am admittedly no legal scholar, but on a purely speculative basis, could this not be used as a foundation for a legal challenge against the constitutionality of the firearms registry. Also, could this furthermore open the door for Canadians to have the right to confirmed and protected CCDW(Carry Concealed Deadly Weapon), and “Castle Doctrine”?
 
Ex-SHAD said:
          Now I am admittedly no legal scholar, but on a purely speculative basis, could this not be used as a foundation for a legal challenge against the constitutionality of the firearms registry. Also, could this furthermore open the door for Canadians to have the right to confirmed and protected CCDW(Carry Concealed Deadly Weapon), and “Castle Doctrine”?

Go have a look at "The Great Gun Control Debate" thread for your answers. We're not starting another here.

Milnet.ca Staff
 
To keep it simple, the use of force, including deadly force in self-defense is allowed and supported by recent Canadian court cases. Canadians can carry concealed firearms under the current laws known as “Authorizations to Carry” (ATC) if you can convince the local Chief Firearms Officer of your need (Good Luck, only 13 were issued in Ontario in 2008) There is also ATC’s for wilderness carry and security guards. A gun owner can carry a unloaded restricted firearm in their dwelling house and possibly their yard (look up the term “curtilage”, no current case law I am aware on this matter, want to go first?)
 
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