Canadian's in Vietnam

[tomahawk6]

http://www.canadiansinvietnam.ca/index.html

Some 40,000 Canadians served in the US Army from 1959 - 75 [a fact I wasnt aware of until I saw web site].
This web site was sent to me in an email today from a vet of the 4/23d Infantry Reg [the first unit I served with]
informing others of ceremonies in Windsor on July 2d that will honor the memory/service of those Canadians that served in Vietnam. This was new to me and I am sure that most of you knew this already but I thought it was worth a post.

 

[wack-in-iraq]

http://www.canadiansinvietnam.ca/index.html

Some 40,000 Canadians served in the US Army from 1959 - 75 [a fact I wasnt aware of until I saw web site].
This web site was sent to me in an email today from a vet of the 4/23d Infantry Reg [the first unit I served with]
informing others of ceremonies in Windsor on July 2d that will honor the memory/service of those Canadians that served in Vietnam. This was new to me and I am sure that most of you knew this already but I thought it was worth a post.

i knew many canadians served, but i had no idea it was this many !  one thing that always amazes me is how australia and other nations that served in vietnam have been totally overshadowed, regardless of what the general opinion is on this war, a lot of young guys served, and gave their all for their nations. pro patria on that one !

 

[NateC]

I've known this, after all, my uncle served in Vietnam.

 

[Gramps]

Just to clear a few things up about the 40,00 Canadians that served in Vietnam. In case some dont realize, they had crossed the border and had joined U.S Forces. I posted this just to let people know that they were not in a Canadian uniform or unit. Cheers.

 

[swanita]

My dad was one of those individuals.  Him and his friends went to the states, signed up as a joke, but that passed once they got the call.  My dad was over there for 2 years......Lets just say there are some residual effects from what happened over there, as I'm sure with many veterans.

 

[NateC]

Looking at the statistic again, I believe it is wrong, it's supposed to be four thousand to six thousand Canadians.

 

[Gramps]

Regardless of what you believe some estimates go as high as 60,000. Here is a link with some more conservative estimates of 30,000 to 40,000. Cheers.

http://spidersweb.stormpages.com/history.htm

 

[scm77]

Thanks for the link tomahawk6

 

[Felix-19]

I watched a documentary on this subject about a year ago (can't remember what it was called).  Anyways, it estimated that about 40,000 Canadians served in the US Forces during the war, while approximately 6-10,000 of them actually served incountry. 

 

[LF(CMO)]

It would be interesting to know how many had previous service in the CF before joining the US Forces.  I have two good friends (both former LDSH) who served in Vietnam.  Bob C. with the 75th Rangers and Al G. with the Royal Australian Regt.

Bob was originally from London Ont.  He was in the Militia at 16, the LDSH at 18 and the Rangers at 21.  He served as both ATL and TL on 6 man Ranger Teams in Vietnam. When he got out he went to Western and then rejoined the ?? Service Batt and was Commissioned.  He moved to Edmonton and transfered to the Service Batt there.  He got out of the Militia when he joined the RCMP Aux.  He is very active in the various Rangers Veterans Asso.

He wears his Canadian and US decorations (he has two Bronze Stars) together.  He always tells me that when he goes to the US he just reverses the order.  He just lately received one from the state of NY as he gave his address as Buffalo when he joined.  Many Canadians did that making an accurate estimate of the number of Canadians difficult.  Bob said that there were two other Canadian Sgts in his outfit when he was in Vietnam, both from Ontario.  One was KIA and the other survived.

 

[1feral1]

Looking at the statistic again, I believe it is wrong, it's supposed to be four thousand to six thousand Canadians.

Hummm...

You ar WRONG Nate, the stats are right, and so are the books which support that, along with the Vets who were there. What makes you believe anything else? What makes you the SME on this topic. Remember the Viet Nam War was from about 1960 to 1975. Australian involvement was from 1962 to 1972 with some of our troops there to the end.

To say that the figures are false without any backing, aside from an Uncle who was 'there' is in very bad taste, and is denying the Canadians who were there the recognition and gratitude they so much deserve and more.

Whats next? Was ther a Holocaust? Yes there sure was, but some deny that too. A certain school teacher from Alberta made big waves many years ago teaching his students that such a thing was fabrication.

Australia sent over 50,000 troops to SVN, of which a handful are still serving here today.   We had some serious battles there. Try doing a search for Long Tan.

Canada, in about 1973 sent a small contingent to SVN, part of the ICCS (do a search).   A friends Dad was there with them, and to be distinguished from the US and Allied forces, they wore Work Dress w/SS shirts, knee high CF green coloured socks and Work Dress shorts, with oxford shoes as dress of the day.

 

[NateC]

Well.. if you look at the title "Canadians in Vietnam", not "Canadians in the American military during Vietnam"


""Colonel Shields said the Defense Department had no figures because the records of soldiers who served in Vietnam had been retired."
"Roderick Engert, chief of the reference branch of the Center of Military History of the Pentagon, said the number might be only 2,500 to 3,000. He extrapolates his figures from the casualty ratio in the war, in which 2.7 million Americans served and 58,000 died. A Canadian Government official said he doubted that more than 5,000 Canadians had served in Vietnam."



"...The war also lured an estimated 5,000 Canadians to enlist in its jungle hells."
    - Marci McDonald, "Vietnam's Bitter Legacy", Maclean's, Apr. 29, 1985.

I've been searching the web for the last hour, I've seen many different estimates. But from a television documentary I watched a month ago, it said only four to six thousand Canadians ever served in Vietnam.

 

[NateC]

Well.. if you look at the title "Canadians in Vietnam", not "Canadians in the American military during Vietnam"


""Colonel Shields said the Defense Department had no figures because the records of soldiers who served in Vietnam had been retired."
"Roderick Engert, chief of the reference branch of the Center of Military History of the Pentagon, said the number might be only 2,500 to 3,000. He extrapolates his figures from the casualty ratio in the war, in which 2.7 million Americans served and 58,000 died. A Canadian Government official said he doubted that more than 5,000 Canadians had served in Vietnam."



"...The war also lured an estimated 5,000 Canadians to enlist in its jungle hells."
    - Marci McDonald, "Vietnam's Bitter Legacy", Maclean's, Apr. 29, 1985.

I've been searching the web for the last hour, I've seen many different estimates. But from a television documentary I watched a month ago, it said only four to six thousand Canadians ever served in Vietnam.

The Vietnam war went from 1959 till 1975. But major combat happened between 1965 and 1973. In 1973 the Americans began pulling out their ground forces and leaving the ARVN to fend for themselves. So your WRONG Wesley.

I know there was a damn holocaust my great uncle was in Buchenwald, so I damned well know that their was one.

Where I used to live there were four Vietnam veterans that lived near me, they were Americans that moved here after the war, I also have read 13 Vietnam related books, and just finished one about the Ton Say prison rescue, I am not a total idiot on the subject.

 

[LF(CMO)]

Wes, is there anything in Aus to determine how many Canadians served in the Australian Forces in Vietnam?  I asked Al that question one time and he said he knew of one other beside himself.  I think I also remember him saying that he ran into a guy serving with the NZ forces as well.

Al is building logging roads in the Central Interior of BC and difficult to communicate with at the present.  I spoke with a mutual acquaintance a few weeks ago and he said Al just recently resigned his postion in the Canadian Ranger Patrol that he had been previous active in.

 

[1feral1]

The Vietnam war went from 1959 till 1975. But major combat happened between 1965 and 1973. In 1973 the Americans began pulling out their ground forces and leaving the ARVN to fend for themselves. So your WRONG Wesley.

I know there was a damn holocaust my great uncle was in Buchenwald, so I damned well know that their was one.

Where I used to live there were four Vietnam veterans that lived near me, they were Americans that moved here after the war, I also have read 13 Vietnam related books, and just finished one about the Ton Say prison rescue, I am not a total idiot on the subject.

Nope I aint wrong. The number of Canadians that served in the US Forces from say 1960-75 ( I said about 1960 <the US Memorial states 1959>, the 1st US KIA was in the late 1950's, if I remember right,a bloke by the name of Cramer, in Oct 1957) is correct, but thats serving in the Forces, not necessarily 'in country', of which thousands did truly serve in theatre, and more than the amount you seem to believe. There will aways be skeptics. Even after 30 Apr 75 when Siagon fell, US Forces, including USAF, Army and USMC were still being killed there, even though the US lists the last 'combat' casualty in early 1973.

Over the years, I have learned many things about VN and its history, plus the ARVNs and how they operated. I have had the privillage to have met several living here, mainly former officers who got out pre 30 Apr 75. All have stories, plus I have Aussie (one still in WO2) and US friends who served. In 2002 I had the chance to be an offical guide, accompanying Australian Vets returning to Viet Nam to former battlefields, but I could not get the leave from my Unit, due to a large exercise which clashed with the tour dates. I have also lectured on certain Australian battles in this war, giving both sides of what happened.

So an uncle that served in SVN, and a great uncle in a death camp, but on which side of the wire? I am not smearing shyte on ya, but I smell poo here. Sorry, but I do. Seems many on here seem to use the 'I had an uncle' line all to often and get caught up in it all. So pardon me for my lack of belief. However try reading the book Unknown Valour, specifically written about Canadians who seved in SVN, yes well in the US Forces. Do you have that one?

Sorry pal, but at 16, and reading a few books does not make you an SME here (not that I am either). I first started researching Canadians in this war back over 25 yrs ago (1978). So, I am not even going to get into a pissing contest with you on this subject, so you can go on thinking/believing what you wish (on the first 'Cdns in VN' info found on google) again denying our Vets their recognition, by short changing their numbers. Many Canadians (does the Legion now?) do not even recognise them as Veterans, as it was not a Canadian war (thats their words not mine), however if we go back the the Spanish Civil War of the late 1930's, what about the Mckenzie-Papineau Battalion (do a search) which was raised, and they are recognised (even by the Legion).

For LF, as for Canucks in SVN, I don't really have a clue, as even now in today's Army, there are just a few of us here. I have only ran into a handful from the rank of PTE to MAJ, Army and RAAF. I have heard that there are also some Canucks in the RAN too, but never met one. There is South Africans, Kiwis, Poms and even the odd Yank in the Army here. The last Canuck I spoke to was a CAPT out of Vic Bks in Sydney at the annual RAA Christmas Church Pde in The Rocks last December. he had been a CAPT in the CF, and came accross to us here, as many have done. Wanna know more? Try www.defencejobs.gov.au as this gives the pre-requisits to foreigners who wish to serve here.

Cheers,

Wes

EDITed for clarity and spelling

 

[Zartan]

Didn't the Vietnam War begin just after WW2 when the locals rebelled against the French?

Regardless, I too have heard that roughly 50 000 Canadians partook in the Vietnam War (also a roughly equal to the number who participated in the American Civil War)

As a third note, the other countries that were involved do not get any recognition for the war. Up until a little while ago, I had only a scant idea of other countries at war. SEATO (the South East Asian Treaty Organization), a version of NATO, was involved, but collasped post-war. Nonetheless, the Australians have a special place in the war. The Australian SAS has the highest kill-ratio of any unit engaged in the fighting, if I remember correctly, at a whopping 500-1. However, I read this in a book, and therefore cannot post a link, but the book was
"Canada's Secret Commandos".

 

[1feral1]

Didn't the Vietnam War begin just after WW2 when the locals rebelled against the French?

You are talking about the Viet Minh against the French colonial forces (after all Viet Nam was formerly French Indo-China).Their war goes farther back than that, what about agaisnt the Japs for example. However we are talking about the American involvment in this war, which began well before 1959.

My favourite SASR ambush is that of 'the tractor job' (do a search for it). I have examined copies of the AARs and seen the sketches, followed by the air photos of the aftermath, and it was truly very well executed. One of the 75mm RRs captured is in posession of the Infantry Museum at Singleton in New South Wales.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[NateC]

I am not lying, my Uncle has three tours in Vietnam, serving with MACV-SOG in Kontum. My great-uncle fought all threw Italy and in Febuary of 1945 he was captured by some German soldiers and was put in a concentration camp, I've heard stories of what it was like, and I am definetly not lying. I had eight people in my family that fought in World War two, four in World War One, one in Korea, one in the Boer War, one in the American Civil war, and it goes on and on.

I knew a guy that was actually one of the last Marines to leave Saigon when it fell, but I never knew there were people killed after the Americans left, I am still trying to figure that one out.

 

[1feral1]

13 May 75:   USAF 25 killed, 14 May 75: 14 USMC, 2 USN, 2 USAF killed, 08 Nov 75: 1 US Army killed.

Although the CF's invlovment in the Italian (Sicily 10 Jul - 06   Aug 43 Italy 03 Sep 43 - 25 Feb 45) campaign ended in Feb 45, I find it hard to phathom that a Canadian PoW would be transported all the way from Italy to to a Jewish Death camp at Buchenwald so late in the war, thru areas where indeed the war was being lost by the Germans.   Buchenwald was liberated on 11 Apr 45, and I have NEVER heard of generic CF pers being held there.

 

[NateC]

13 May 75:  USAF 25 killed, 14 May 75: 14 USMC, 2 USN, 2 USAF killed, 08 Nov 75: 1 US Army killed.

Although the CF's invlovment in the Italian (Sicily 10 Jul - 06  Aug 43 Italy 03 Sep 43 - 25 Feb 45) campaign ended in Feb 45, I find it hard to phathom that a Canadian PoW would be transported all the way from Italy to to a Jewish Death camp at Buchenwald so late in the war, thru areas where indeed the war was being lost by the Germans.  Buchenwald was liberated on 11 Apr 45, and I have NEVER heard of generic CF pers being held there.

All I know was that he fought in Italy, and was in Bechenwald. I am sorry, I never met the guy, I have his name if you don't believe me. But obviously you are some person with a lot of time on your hands, using google to find dates and such... trying to show up a sixteen year-old, that's somewhat pathetic.