Canadians of Convenience?

[Bob Terwilliger]

Now that the dust has settled (for the most part) on our efforts to evacuate Canadian citizens from Lebanon, I think its time we take a hard look at these citizens of convenience, people with Canadian passports who work, live and pay taxes in another country. What can be done? Should we revoke the citizenship of anyone out of the country for more than 5 years?  I am certain half of the 40,000 "Canadians" in Lebanon would have been stricken off strength with a 5 year rule. I am not anti immigration in any way(my wife immigrated to Canada from Hong Kong), but something needs to be done.

 

[exsemjingo]

That would be nice, but we are hopped legally this time.  The political will to close these loopholes is somewhat scant, and being Canadian when it is convenient rather than when it is dutiful all too common.
This does not only apply to immigrants.

 

[George Wallace]

I am of two minds on this matter.  Yes, I find it deplorable that people have emigrated to Canada, become Canadian citizens and them returned to their native lands, only to abuse the Canadian Welfare and Social Systems at their liesure and then to cry out for help should their lives be in peril in a foreign land.  On the other hand, I think that it is a good thing that Canadian citizens are going to these third world nations and helping to bring about "Reconstruction", "Change", and improve the lot of the people in these countries and bring them into the 21st Century.  Who better to rebuild Afghanistan in the near future, than Afghan expatriates living in the West?  Who better to rebuild and democratize Afghanistan, Lebanon and other like nations, than those who have experienced modern, less corrupt systems in other nations of the West. 

I truly despise anyone who has come to Canada to criminally abuse our Freedoms, Welfare, Health and Social Systems.  Those people, however, are the few, not the many.  We have to be careful in our generalizations.

 

[Bob Terwilliger]

Perhaps we should look at some method of connecting the eligibility for services(CPP, access to medical care, welfare etc) to the length of time a person resides in country.

 

[The Bread Guy]

According to one columnist, the discussion may be one who's time has come....

http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/canada/article.jsp?content=20060814_131837_131837#

(...)

''The Canadian government is not planning a wholesale review of dual citizenship, says Lesley Harmer, a spokeswoman for Citizenship and Immigration Minister Monte Solberg. But it could benefit from holding one, says the Ipsos-Reid pollster Darrell Bricker: "Having a review of this issue and making Canadian citizenship worth a little bit more and having a more demonstrated commitment to the country would play reasonably well with conservative voters." ''

(...)

And a touch of history....

''Canadian citizenship also emerged out of conflict, in 1947, under legislation first brought forward by Paul Martin Sr., after viewing graves of the Canadian war dead at Dieppe. Until then, Canadians were considered British subjects. Under the new law, a Canadian citizen who chose to become a citizen of another country automatically ceased to be a Canadian citizen, but immigrants were not required to renounce past ties. In 1977, the ban was lifted on Canadian citizens taking out foreign passports after a standing committee raised concerns that the automatic loss of Canadian citizenship affected Canadians seeking citizenship of another country, but not foreign nationals acquiring Canadian citizenship. To require immigrants to renounce past citizenships was deemed "impractical and difficult to enforce" because some countries may not recognize renunciation of citizenship by their nationals.''

 

[wotan]

Simple solution:

  If you hold dual citizenship and something crappy happens in your "other" homeland, then good luck!  Look to your "home" government to help you.  Why would it be Canada's problem if a Fantasian (insert any applicable country/nationality here) was bombed/kidnapped/suffered with a natural disaster in Fantasia?  Would we send aid?  Sure, most probably?  Would we bring Fantasians here?  Nope.  So why bring Fantasians here if they hold a certain piece of ID?  Good luck and have fun.  They certainly can't claim they didn't know what Fantasia was about, they are, after all Fantasians.  And if Fantasians happen to be at war with their neighbour for the last 20 years, they can't really be surprised that their neighbour decides to get serious about this whole warfare thing, especially, if say, a few of their soldiers were snatched.  Not that such a thing would happen in real life, right?

 

[toglmonster]

Do what the Governments good at, tax the hell out of them. If you don't have a permanent residence in Canada and are gone for more then a year, then it's a $1000.00 a year to keep your citizenship.

 

[FredDaHead]

Do what the Governments good at, tax the hell out of them. If you don't have a permanent residence in Canada and are gone for more then a year, then it's a $1000.00 a year to keep your citizenship.

Aren't we paying a couple gazillions to a certain group of immigrants for something similar? ...Maybe it's not a great idea to do it this way.

How about, if you migrate to Canada and then move away again for more than some arbitrary number of years, you automatically lose your citizenship?

 

[JackD]

Before you all go half-cocked about Canadians living overseas - I'm one of them - i doubt if I'd ever return to Canada - no money for that - but I paid my dues in Canada _ 11 years in the military, 23 something years of working - never touched welfare.. never got a single bleassed thing out of the Canadian government. I work as a teacher here in Poland - and i introduce Canadian literature and topics about Canada into my classes. I've got some of my students into Canada where they are contributing the the country. I in effect do more for the the country of Canada than do the high priced useless staff in Warszawa. Most of us ex-pats do more for the country than many people think - do you want to remove the citizenship of Wayne Gretzky?  Anne Murray?  Bill Murray? A quarter of Canada's Nobel prize winning scientists?

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Overall, if anything is to be done there has to be better systems to monitor what people are doing.  Certainly, if anyone is popping in just to get a free surgery, or collect some welfare they should be punted.  However, that is going to take some ramping up of border security, which is it's own issue. 
Suffice to say, the act that governs much of this is called the Immigrant and Refugee Protection Act.  Deliberate emphasis on "protection".  As always, Canada cherishes its special groups and moves the world to assist them. 
Anyone interested can peruse this link

BUT WAIT, THERES MORE!!

Claim refugee status now, and you can recieve the following benefits!

Financial Assistance and Loans

The Canadian government has several programs to help refugees establish themselves in their new home.

Resettlement Assistance Program

Resettlement assistance is provided to Convention Refugees Abroad and members of the Source Country Class, and in some instances, members of the Country of Asylum Class, admitted to Canada as government-assisted refugees. These funds are given to help pay for:

meeting the refugee at the airport or port of entry;
temporary accommodation;
help in finding permanent accommodation;
basic household items; and
general orientation to life in Canada.
This money is also used to provide the refugee with income support for up to one year or until that person becomes self-sufficient, whichever comes first.

Immigration Loans Program

The Immigration Loans Program (ILP) is funded from the federal government’s Consolidated Revenue Fund. Repayments on the loans replenish this fund. Loans are approved according to the applicant’s needs and ability to repay.
Loans are largely given to government-assisted or privately sponsored members of the Convention Refugees Abroad, Country of Asylum and Source Country classes. The loans may be approved to pay for:

the costs of medical examinations abroad;
travel documents; and
transportation to Canada.
Assistance loans are also available to newcomers to cover expenses such as housing rental, telephone deposits and work tools.

Interest is charged on ILP loans. The interest rate is set each January by the Department of Finance.

Interim Federal Health Program

Citizenship and Immigration Canada administers the Interim Federal Health (IFH) Program. Refugees are eligible for full benefits under the IFH Program until their provincial health plan coverage begins. Once provincial coverage has started, refugees are eligible for supplemental coverage under the IFH Program, which covers emergency dental, vision and pharmaceutical care. For more information on the IFH, see the FAS Benefit Administrators Ltd. Web site.

[editted for colour and spacing]

 

[Kat Stevens]

Immigration must be doing a pretty good business, cashwise.  I just shelled out $150 for two cards that prove that two of my kids, both Children of Canadian citizens, born in a CF hospital, on an overseas CF base, are in fact Canadian citizens.  Multiply that by the number of Lahr and Baden brats, you've got a pretty good racket going there..... :rage:

 

[1feral1]

Now that the dust has settled (for the most part) on our efforts to evacuate Canadian citizens from Lebanon, I think its time we take a hard look at these citizens of convenience, people with Canadian passports who work, live and pay taxes in another country. What can be done? Should we revoke the citizenship of anyone out of the country for more than 5 years?  I am certain half of the 40,000 "Canadians" in Lebanon would have been stricken off strength with a 5 year rule. I am not anti immigration in any way(my wife immigrated to Canada from Hong Kong), but something needs to be done.

Hey Bob, are you talking about 'new' Canadians originally from other places milkng, raping and taking advantage of genuine services, or people who are Canadian born living overseas for whatever reasons? I was born in Saskatoon, served over 18yrs in the CF, and earned my Australian citizenship in 1997 after serving 2 yrs in the Army here. I have what I call the best of both hemispheres. My Cdn passport has long since expired, and I do NOT pay taxes in Canada, and I do not vote in Canadian elections. Although I no longer live in dear ole Saskatchewan, I certainly am not a Canadian out of convienience.

But I did get a $60 refund on my PAL not too long ago ;D

Regards,

Wes

 

[civmick]

Well, I can tell you I got nowt - cost me $2000 to live here and I don't have a "community" to go to their Immigrant Assistance Organisation. My missus could have got EU citizenship for free and come live with me.  :crybaby:

Must like the place  ;D 

 

[Blakey]

Immigration must be doing a pretty good business, cashwise.  I just shelled out $150 for two cards that prove that two of my kids, both Children of Canadian citizens, born in a CF hospital, on an overseas CF base, are in fact Canadian citizens.  Multiply that by the number of Lahr and Baden brats, you've got a pretty good racket going there..... :rage:

Ain't, life "grand", I myself was born to Canadian parrents, one of whom was a CF member, overseas on a British base stationed in Germany.

 

[FredDaHead]

There is a world of difference between Canadian-born citizen who move away, and people who moved to Canada for however long it took to get their citizenship then moved back to their armpit of a country.

For the first group, citizenship, although not earned, is probably not of convenience--they didn't pick a credible country to live in for a while, then move away. The second group, however, deliberately went to a country with lax immigration laws, got their citizenship, and then take advantage of it when possible.

 

[Kat Stevens]

So, as I understand you Fred, you are including me in that group.  For I came to Canada at the age of 10, got my citizenship after 5 years of landed immigrant status, and joined the army just shy of my 18th birthday.  I served 23 years, and was medically released because my service to Canada cost me the full use of my lower back.  After I work for another 20 or so years, I plan to retire somewhere warm.  Because I was born elsewhere, am I included in group 2?  Just seeking clarification.

 

[paracowboy]

Fred, say "yes". I wanna see what happens!

 

[FredDaHead]

Obviously I ran out of gray to paint the issue with and was left with black and white.

As for you, Kat, although you don't quite fit in category 1, you don't quite fit in category 2 either. Category 2, as I said, is people who got their citizenship and immediately (or shortly afterwards) went out of Canada. They're not retirees who decided to go somewhere war, they're not crown employees, and they didn't try and make Canada better--they try and make their own situation better, and feel no loyalty to Canada. I don't think you fit very well in that category either. I guess I need to make up category 3: people who migrated here, became citizens, made/tried to make Canada a better spot to live or prevented it getting worse, and then left. Category 3 people do feel loyalty to Canada.

I'll go wash my feet and then proceed to stick them firmly in my mouth now, if you don't mind.

 

[paracowboy]

aaaawwwww!

 

[Michael OLeary]

I suppose the lesson here is that no matter where you draw the line, it passes between two people standing shoulder-to-shoulder.  Better a response from the government in support of our citizens than none at all, otherwise you might be the next man "just outside the wire."  What would be next "logical" step to tiered entitlements of citizens? Linking the responsiveness of the 911 system to the municipal tax database to determine your place in the queue?