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CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

Blackadder1916

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According to the WHO https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf



While you do make "some" valid points about lacklustre performance in Canada's health care system your argument would be better with a more judicious use of references.

While the WHO paper has no date indicated, all its cited references are from the earliest in the 1970s to the latest in 2000, so the data used is more than 20 years old. That doesn't necessarily invalidate its conclusions but it may possibly change some of the rankings.

The other chart you included (I've also used - not here - the bigger the size, the louder the argument method) is more recent. I had a quick look at that Commonwealth Fund Mirror, Mirror 2021 study. What caught my attention more than the chart you used was this one which broke down the rankings - Access to Care, Care Process, Administrative Efficiency, Equity, and Health Care Outcomes.

Hlth Care Sys Performance Rankings.png

Recognizing that the Commonwealth Fund's aim (with this and previous versions of the study) is to encourage the adoption of universal health coverage in the USA (or as close to universal as would be recognized in an American mindset), it didn't surprise me that the USA ranked lowest in all the categories except for "Care Process", which leads me to the conclusion that "if" (and that's a big if) an American can avail themselves of the full spectrum of care/services, they get very good care. What did surprise me was the low ranking of Canada in Access to Care, Equity and most of all, Health Care Outcomes; our ranking in Care Process is a respectable (better than most) fourth place. My thought thus went to "what do these categories mean, how did they arrive at the rankings, and is there a measurement other than placing that marks the differences". For example, in the last Olympic 100 metre sprint final, between first and sixth place (the final two did not finish) there was only a difference of 0.18 seconds (Canada's Andre Degrasse's 0.09 second slower speed relegated him to a Bronze Medal - how pitiful :cdn:).

There is some explanation in the study as to my questions but a lot of it is a broad brush (at least too broad a brush for the detail I would like), however the 2017 version of the Commonwealth Fund's study did link to a bit more detail of the criteria used to arrive at those rankings. The 2021 study does explain that there were some changes (additions/deletions to criteria/questions) since than earlier survey. Even thus, all my questions were not met but my takeaway from the study (they don't say it, it's my conclusion) is to reinforce my already formed opinion that the most viable path to improving our health system - or at least our rankings in these sort of studies is (in order of priority):

a. universal drug coverage
b. universal dental coverage
c. increase output of medical graduates

There are other things I could suggest but those three are good first bites of the apple.

Those are three things that differentiate us from many of the countries ranking higher in these type of studies. While many will raise the issue of the public/private health insurance and provider mix for the more successful European countries, my best response is - we're not Europeans, we don't think like them, we don't have their history (in this issue), we aren't governed like them and most important of all, they don't sit next to and are not culturally and economically influenced to the same extent by the USA.

For those who may be interested in background on other countries' health systems Country Profiles | Commonwealth Fund

And some charts related to my suggested improvement

Medical graduates churned out.
OECD Med grads 2017.jpg

Extent of Coverage - note for Canada the percentage for Dental and Pharm compared to other players in the study
Extent of coverage 2017.jpg

Out-of-pocket spending on health, by type of services, 2017 (or nearest year)
Out of pocket by service.jpg
 

lenaitch

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You buy in lots and make those lots available for purchase at a reduced cost to Health authorities or ear mark them for disaster relief before they expire. You be best hiring a company like Amazon to design your system and warehouse to ensure a good flow of new and outgoing supplies. the first couple of years will be messy, but afterwards you have good sources to acquire and dispose of the stock.
It's not rocket surgery - grocery stores rotate their stock every day.

I don't know, but suspect that the Ontario government either through the Ministry of Health or Emergency Management Ontario bought a bunch of kit independent of the normal acquisition process of the medical community, resulting in quantities of stuff of roughly the same age languishing on the shelf while day-to-day consumption carried on. If there were a series of 'clearinghouses' across the province from which the medical community could access their supplies, all it would cost the government directly is the upfront seed money to establish the stockpile.
 

mariomike

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Here in the SSR Manitoba some docs tried to open private MRI clinics. They were quickly denounced by the then NDP government who bought the clinics outright. The wait time for an MRI is now 17-33 weeks, depending on which district and hospital can get you in.

Our employer provides a post-retirement Health Care Spending Account ( HCSA ) which covers private MRI.
Diagnostic tests – the cost of medical tests such as cardiographs, electrocardiograms, x-rays, ultrasounds, MRI, and CT scans (including the cost of any related interpretation or diagnosis). Deluxe or elective tests are eligible.

Anyone with a HCSA may wish to check their coverage. YMMV depending on province.
 

Blackadder1916

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While the "political" ramifications/machinations/approaches to the pandemic vary among the several provinces, south of the border (and not far south) crazy shyte is going on.

As Gov. Little visits the border, Lt. Gov. McGeachin signs executive order banning Idaho schools, universities from requiring COVID-19 vaccines, tests​

BOISE, Idaho — Less than 24 hours after Idaho Gov. Brad Little departed the state to visit the U.S.-Mexico border, Lt. Gov. Janice McGeachin signed an executive order as acting governor banning vaccine passports or mandatory COVID-19 testing at K-12 schools and universities in Idaho.

In a tweet, McGeachin wrote that she "fixed" Little's executive order on vaccine passports, which was originally issued in April, to include K-12 schools and universities.

"I will continue to fight for your individual Liberty," she wrote.

In the original order, Little said no government entity will be allowed to require proof of COVID-19 vaccination for citizens to receive public services or access facilities.

Less than ten minutes after McGeachin announced her executive order, Little responded on Twitter, stating he did not authorize McGeachin to act on his behalf and "I will be rescinding and reversing any actions taken by the Lt. Governor when I return."

Little is currently in Texas, along with nine other Republican governors, to visit the U.S.-Mexico border on Wednesday.

Little also said McGeachin attempted to activate the Idaho National Guard and send troops to the U.S.-Mexico border. However, the commanding general told McGeachin that she cannot activate troops and said a call for help from border states earlier this year involved law enforcement, according to the Associated Press.

"Attempting to deploy our National Guard for political grandstanding is an affront to the Idaho constitution and insults the men and women who have dedicated their life to serving our state and the country," Little wrote via Facebook.

Speaker of the Idaho House of Representatives Scott Bedke (R-Oakley) issued the following statement regarding McGeachin's executive order, saying in part:

While the Lt. Governor has an important role to serve as president of the Senate and follow the guidance of the Governor, her actions today are the exact kind of overreach that does not represent Idaho and Idahoans. This is a complete grandstand and abuse of her political office in an attempt to influence voters.
What comes next will be determined soon by the Legislative Branch and not be left to the Lt. Governor to dictate.


U.S. Congressman Mike Simpson (R-Idaho) also took to Twitter to express his concern over McGeachin's actions, stating it was "unfortunate" that Little must "also deal with these distractions from his Lt. Governor" while out of the state.

This is not the first time McGeachin has attempted to sign an executive order into law in Little's absence. McGeachin issued an order banning masks mandates statewide in May, while Little was out of state at the Republican Governors Association conference.

Little later repealed that executive order and slammed McGeachin issuing the order as "an irresponsible, self-serving political stunt" that subverted the decisions of local officials and the people of Idaho.
 

mariomike

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Not sure what the policy is with other municipal governments across Canada.

Where I live, if not double-vaccinatated as of 1 Nov., they are suspended without pay.

Effective 13 Dec., they are "terminated for cause".
 

mariomike

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While the "political" ramifications/machinations/approaches to the pandemic vary among the several provinces, south of the border (and not far south) crazy shyte is going on.
Saw people boo a politician in South Carolina when he suggested they get vaccinated.

Guess he didn't dare say out loud that they can't vote if Covid kills them.
 

OceanBonfire

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Unsurprisingly, the extreme-right exploits misinformation:

 

OceanBonfire

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...

To oversee the administrative discharge process for those refusing the vaccine, the Navy established the COVID Consolidated Disposition Authority (CCDA). This, Lescher wrote, will “ensure a fair and consistent process” for separation determinations.

The Chief of Naval Personnel (CNP) is the CCDA for the administrative separation processing of Navy service members, with the Chief of Navy Reserve (CNR) providing support to the CCDA for cases involving Navy service members in the Selected Reserve. The Vice Chief of Naval Operations retains authority for non-judicial punishment and courts-martial.

Administrative actions may begin as soon as a Navy service member meets the definition of “refusing the vaccine”, which is a Navy service member who received a lawful order to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19, is not or will not be fully vaccinated on the date required by the order, and does not have a pending or approved exemption request.

Effective immediately upon the release of the message, commands shall not allow Sailors refusing the vaccine to promote or advance, reenlist, or execute orders, with the exception of separation orders, until the CCDA has completed disposition of their case. Transfer orders may be cancelled by Navy Personnel Command.

...

 

mariomike

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The Bread Guy

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MPP Randy in the news.



Here's another case from the same list ...
... Family and friends of 39-year-old Brian Dzijak, a Thunder Bay man who died unexpectedly last month, are outraged that their loved one was dragged into Hillier’s conspiracy post.

“After the family became aware of the post they reached out and I spoke to them,” said family spokesman Ryan La Via, a long-time close friend of Dzijak’s.

“They, like so many others, are shocked and sickened by the actions taken by this individual. They’ve completely denied the allegation. There’s no truth to it. It is completely fake news.” ...
 

Jarnhamar

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MPP Randy in the news.

Someone sent me a screenshot of that post as if it was proof. They were pretty proud and feeling validated.

In the 90s I used to read SciFi novels and in one particular series the media and news were as powerful, if not more powerful, than the military. I distinctly remember thinking how stupid that was and that no one would blindly follow the media. Seems like they were on to something.
 

dimsum

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Someone sent me a screenshot of that post as if it was proof. They were pretty proud and feeling validated.

In the 90s I used to read SciFi novels and in one particular series the media and news were as powerful, if not more powerful, than the military. I distinctly remember thinking how stupid that was and that no one would blindly follow the media. Seems like they were on to something.
Remember Tomorrow Never Dies? I hated that movie but the whole idea of the media made me think back then.
 

Brad Sallows

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"Russian Collusion". No, "the media" neither indulges malign bullshit nor actively propagates it.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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I just read an article that the Chinese Govt is trying to blame, via in country tweets, that covid came from a shipment of lobsters from Maine to Wuhan.
 

Fishbone Jones

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I just read an article that the Chinese Govt is trying to blame, via in country tweets, that covid came from a shipment of lobsters from Maine to Wuhan.
There's no government with the stomach to chase down the origin. They would then have to shift their narrative of lockdowns and mass vaccinations to what to do about the world rage against those that tried to kill us.
 
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