CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

[YZT580]

Once again. ....there IS NO STAFFING TO PULL FROM. I know a dietitian therapist who is pulling ICI duties.....

If the armed forces can end up being tasked with manning senior's homes successfully, a little bit of imagination can provide staff to open up old beds. But it is much easier to simply throw up your hands. This whole thing started 2 years ago. Community colleges used to turn out fully qualified (for the day) nurses in two years and that included 3 months off in the summer. Staff is available if you think outside the box.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Said as though it makes no difference.

You have a percentage of those who are off at this point? Also, even before the vaccines were out, staff were burning out - which touches on others talking about need for more health staffing capacity overall.

 

[Brad Sallows]

"We" could stop tossing out "we have no staff" as an excuse for doing nothing right now, and start training new staff for the future. Especially for the benefit of those who are acting like this is going to go on a lot longer.

 

[Brad Sallows]

One way to charge people more money for bad habits is to introduce - or re-introduce - medical service premiums (ie. insurance fees). (This would have to be done provincially.) Start with a base amount and a list of bad habits (smoking, drugs, amount of alcohol, risky pasttimes, etc). Each bad habit selected would add an actuarially-determined additional premium. Failure to answer truthfully would invalidate coverage.

 

[QV]

You have a percentage of those who are off at this point? Also, even before the vaccines were out, staff were burning out - which touches on others talking about need for more health staffing capacity overall.

So there were staffing shortages and burnouts well before the LWOP... and they LWOP'd some anyway... well done.

I suggest, in a pandemic with short staffing and burnouts, they should have been doing the opposite and hiring more - not LWOPing those who likely have natural immunity. The current situation is as dumb as it gets.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

If the armed forces can end up being tasked with manning senior's homes successfully, a little bit of imagination can provide staff to open up old beds. But it is much easier to simply throw up your hands. This whole thing started 2 years ago. Community colleges used to turn out fully qualified (for the day) nurses in two years and that included 3 months off in the summer. Staff is available if you think outside the box.

Do you know why the "armed forces" gets called??? Not for qualifications but because they'll actually show up.....

They're a freakin' dream to places right now....folks that can't say "no".

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Perhaps they are trying to get ahead of the inevitable narrative that we've been scammed with false numbers? I've said numerous time that dying WITH Covid was different than dying OF Covid. 😉

46% of those currently hospitalized with COVID in Ontario were admitted for other reasons: new data​

46% of those currently hospitalized with COVID in Ontario were admitted for other reasons: new data | Globalnews.ca

New data indicates that 46 per cent of people currently in Ontario hospitals with COVID-19 were admitted for reasons other than the virus.

globalnews.ca

 

[Fishbone Jones]

....and here we go. There seems a lot of higher ups coming clean all of a sudden. CYA B4 SHTF?

Pfizer CEO: Our Vaccines Offer ‘Limited, If Any Protection’​

Pfizer CEO: Our Vaccines Offer ‘Limited, If Any Protection’

townhall.com

 

[PMedMoe]

Community colleges used to turn out fully qualified (for the day) nurses in two years and that included 3 months off in the summer. Staff is available if you think outside the box.

Doesn't nursing now require a four year degree?

 

[PMedMoe]

....and here we go. There seems a lot of higher ups coming clean all of a sudden. CYA B4 SHTF?

Pfizer CEO: Our Vaccines Offer ‘Limited, If Any Protection’​

"Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla openly stated current vaccines the company developed for Wuhan coronavirus offer "limited, if any" protection against contracting current variants of the disease.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

....and here we go. There seems a lot of higher ups coming clean all of a sudden. CYA B4 SHTF?

Pfizer CEO: Our Vaccines Offer ‘Limited, If Any Protection’​

Pfizer CEO: Our Vaccines Offer ‘Limited, If Any Protection’

townhall.com

Ho-hum.....nothing new here. Last years flu shot might not protect against this year's....heck this year's might not protect against this year's.

You're using old facts THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS and understands. Viruses mutate....always have, always will.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Perhaps they are trying to get ahead of the inevitable narrative that we've been scammed with false numbers? I've said numerous time that dying WITH Covid was different than dying OF Covid. 😉

46% of those currently hospitalized with COVID in Ontario were admitted for other reasons: new data​

46% of those currently hospitalized with COVID in Ontario were admitted for other reasons: new data | Globalnews.ca

New data indicates that 46 per cent of people currently in Ontario hospitals with COVID-19 were admitted for reasons other than the virus.

globalnews.ca

And got a virus in a building full of viruses??? Well breaking news folks....

 

[Quirky]

And got a virus in a building full of viruses??? Well breaking news folks....

Only one problem with that - they use those numbers to scare the public to justify restrictions and lockdowns.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I think telling folks to stay safe so you don't have to come to the hospital and maybe get sicker is not a bad justification.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Conflated personal bias, overblown sense of superiority and off the cuff, personal bloviated opinion without proof, is not a dependable or defensible point of validity. It is simple, ego self stroking for personal benefit.


He said to nobody in particular.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Here is the real problem.

John Ivison: Legault's draconian overreach on the unvaccinated is no cure for the malady

From the article:

"The cure is not to further polarize the population but to treat the malady — the lack of health-care surge capacity.

Take Ontario as an example — between 1990 and 2017, the province saw its population increase 36 per cent. At the same time, its hospital bed count fell from 33,403 to 18,571. Hospitals were operating at 130 per cent capacity, even before the pandemic.

At 2.5 beds per 1000 inhabitants, Canada compares poorly to countries like France (5.8 beds) and Germany (7.9).

........Yet, rather than risk being blamed for the system’s limitations, Legault has engaged in the time-honoured tradition of political deflection."

Provinces have had two years to react to Covid-19. They have been sounding the alarm about the collapse of the Health care system for at least 18 months, yet did little to address it.

I agree 100% with your assessment re hospital beds - and that occurred under the 'leadership' of ALL 3 political parties here in Ontario so the blame falls on all of their collective shoulders.

As for addressing the issues. It takes 4yrs min. to start ramping up more nurses for example, so some low hanging fruit was not picked but a lot of the fruit is higher up the tree and harder to get to.

For example, in the late 80's early 90's it was common for the ENTIRE graduating nurses programme from U of W to be all hired up by hospitals in metro Detroit and for the 3-4 hospitals in Windsor to hire 0 from U of Windsor. I'm not certain much has changed 25yrs later.

 

[OldSolduer]

Perhaps they are trying to get ahead of the inevitable narrative that we've been scammed with false numbers? I've said numerous time that dying WITH Covid was different than dying OF Covid. 😉

46% of those currently hospitalized with COVID in Ontario were admitted for other reasons: new data​

46% of those currently hospitalized with COVID in Ontario were admitted for other reasons: new data | Globalnews.ca

New data indicates that 46 per cent of people currently in Ontario hospitals with COVID-19 were admitted for reasons other than the virus.

globalnews.ca

Our situation in Mb was basically 1/3 of those in hospital care were true COVID. Two thirds were there because of other reasons,.

 

[KevinB]

Our situation in Mb was basically 1/3 of those in hospital care were true COVID. Two thirds were there because of other reasons,.

How does one define "True" COVID? The fact is COVID with something else, is likely to be aggravated by COVID, or COVID aggravated their other issues.
Regularily healthy people with COVID generally recover, the issue is the folks who aren't living as health life before, are more at risk.

 

[Furniture]

I agree 100% with your assessment re hospital beds - and that occurred under the 'leadership' of ALL 3 political parties here in Ontario so the blame falls on all of their collective shoulders.

As for addressing the issues. It takes 4yrs min. to start ramping up more nurses for example, so some low hanging fruit was not picked but a lot of the fruit is higher up the tree and harder to get to.

For example, in the late 80's early 90's it was common for the ENTIRE graduating nurses programme from U of W to be all hired up by hospitals in metro Detroit and for the 3-4 hospitals in Windsor to hire 0 from U of Windsor. I'm not certain much has changed 25yrs later.

Is the bolded section perhaps part of the nursing shortage problem?

Did we raise the bar too high when times were good, expecting times would never be bad?

Also, how much of the issue with getting, and retaining nurses is conditions of work? I've been told that in some provinces new nurses get stuck on-call, or only working night, weekends, and holidays. How do you attract, and keep talent when they get treated like that?

 

[Eaglelord17]

Doesn't nursing now require a four year degree?

Only because we make it require a 4 year degree.

There is no reason we could not have a apprenticeship style program (worked for at least 100 years), as a society we CHOOSE to require a 4 year degree. Much like the skilled trades, these shortages are self made. We have set the requirements too high to get people into them, to pay for a education based economy which doesn't need to exist (the 4 year nursing degree is basically a 4 year apprenticeship we make the students pay for instead of being paid a wage well getting trained).

This worked for a brief period of time when the Boomers were still working and we didn't have shortages in labour. We also didn't train many people for a few decades because we had those positions filled with Boomers who were quite secure in those jobs. Now we no longer have those employees as they have retired, and we don't have the replacements needed because we set the bar too high for too long.

This is all solvable, it just requires some sacred cows to be slaughtered.