CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

[BDTyre]

They might has well just have said "from the clutches of the C.H.U.D." It would have been just as realistic.

 

[Spencer100]

This not the narrative!

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/canada-quietly-secured-order-for-5-millions-pills-of-anti-malaria-medication-eyed-as-potential-covid-19-treatment

This really grinds my gears. 

 

[brihard]

This not the narrative!

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/canada-quietly-secured-order-for-5-millions-pills-of-anti-malaria-medication-eyed-as-potential-covid-19-treatment

This really grinds my gears.

What’s your issue with it? Where do you think this contradicts any sort of ‘narrative’?

 

[Spencer100]

All I have listened to from the media and especially the Canadian media.  Trump could never be right.  The Liberal party also implying the same thing.  The drug could never work Trump is dumb etc.  Then even in the article they even say Canada is buying it "quietly".  So they don't have to admit maybe just maybe the drug is working.  It is just horrible! 

 

[brihard]

All I have listened to from the media and especially the Canadian media.  Trump could never be right.  The Liberal party also implying the same thing.  The drug could never work Trump is dumb etc.  Then even in the article they even say Canada is buying it "quietly".  So they don't have to admit maybe just maybe the drug is working.  It is just horrible!

As a guy who actually read the article, doesn’t sound like you read past the headline. They bought it to secure supply for Lupus and Rheumatoid Arthritis patients, not for use against COVID. They made this deal to replace a batch that was contracted from India in November but that India stopped from leaving the country.

The only reaction this has to Trump’s fabricated claim that it’s effective against COVID is that he caused massive supply chain screwups, and our authorities had to jump through hoops to secure supplies for those legitimately prescribed it for things like immune disorders.

Read the article and see if you hold the same view at the end.

 

[Spencer100]

I did read the whole thing. One it proves my point about the media. The last paragraph even says it...oh yes it may be used for COVID.....plus the quality gives the game away.

 

[mariomike]

All I have listened to from the media and especially the Canadian media.  Trump could never be right.  The Liberal party also implying the same thing.  The drug could never work Trump is dumb etc. 

If they did in fact say that, it would be an interesting court case if he ever sued them for defamation. 

 

[dapaterson]

I did read the whole thing. One it proves my point about the media. The last paragraph even says it...oh yes it may be used for COVID.....plus the quality gives the game away.

Last para:

“This particular shipment is going to be used for its original purpose, and it is separate from the trials that are happening with Health Canada,” she said.

Lets do some math.  Five million pills.  A quick survey say about 350K Canadians suffer from rheumatoid arthritis, lupus and/or malaria.  Assume one in ten requires the medication, or 35,000 patients.  Assume two doses daily.  That's 70K doses per day, or 2.1M doses monthly. 

So an order of 5M does is just over two months of current demand, based on those assumptions.

 

[Remius]

Most of the stuff I have read from the media is that the drug has yet to be proven as an effective treatment.  When have they said it doesn’t work? Or that it isn’t proven not to work?  Definitively?

The criticism about Trump promoting it has nothing to do whether it will work or not, the criticism is about promoting something that is yet to be proven to be effective that has shown to have very serious side effects when not used properly.

What does the article you quote prove exactly?

 

[brihard]

I did read the whole thing. One it proves my point about the media. The last paragraph even says it...oh yes it may be used for COVID.....plus the quality gives the game away.

Uh, no it doesn’t. It says they’re running trials. Of course they are. Every country is running trials just in case. It doesn’t claim anywhere that there’s evidence of its efficacy.

As for “the quality gives the game away”, no, you’re flat out making that up, and I’m calling you on it.

HCQ comes in 200mg pills. A lupus patient, depending on body weight, will need probably two pills a day on average. https://www.lupus.org/resources/drug-spotlight-on-hydroxychloroquine

5m pills / 2 = 2.5m person-days. 2.5m / days a year = 6849 person-years of HCQ for Lupus patients, approximately.

Approximately 15,000 Canadians had Lupus in 2006 per government stats- https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/82-619-m/2006003/4053548-eng.htm. Hard to get anything recent, but I’ve not heard of it suddenly having been cured, or we wouldn’t still need the meds.

So, by simple division, it looks like 5 million pills is about six months of Canada’s demand of Lupus meds. That’s an eminently reasonable purchase, even without imagining other uses for which it’s not approved or supported by evidence.

EDIT TO ADD: thanks to dapaterson for running the same numbers inclusive of RA patients.

 

[tomahawk6]

Next year I hope we have a working vaccine. We have a vaccine for the annual flue but still some folks still die. I take the  annual flu shot and pneumonia shot just in case.

 

[Jarnhamar]

We have a vaccine for the annual flue but still some folks still die.

People who believe in heaven still look both ways before crossing the street.

 

[Remius]

Next year I hope we have a working vaccine. We have a vaccine for the annual flue but still some folks still die. I take the  annual flu shot and pneumonia shot just in case.

Along of people don’t bother getting the vaccine here.  And it’s free and easy to get at any pharmacy.  It won’t protect 100% or get the right strain every time but it still offers some protection and minimises some of the effects.

I’ve had the flu once and I was bed ridden for a week with the shakes, fever etc.  Never want to go through that again.

 

[dapaterson]

And middle America starts getting hit.

Just as cases are starting to plateau in some big cities and along the coasts, the coronavirus is catching fire in rural states across the American heartland, where there has been a small but significant spike this week in cases. Playing out amid these outbreaks is a clash between a frontier culture that values individual freedom and personal responsibility, and the onerous but necessary restrictions to contain a novel biological threat.

The bump in coronavirus cases is most pronounced in states without stay at home orders. Oklahoma saw a 53% increase in cases over the past week, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. Over same time, cases jumped 60% in Arkansas, 74% in Nebraska, and 82% in Iowa. South Dakota saw a whopping 205% spike.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/17/politics/republican-governors-stay-at-home-coronavirus/index.html

 

[brihard]

And middle America starts getting hit.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/17/politics/republican-governors-stay-at-home-coronavirus/index.html

South Dakota's governor has been one of the most vocal for keeping her state open. It's going to be interesting and, I think, disheartening to see how that goes. At least it's sparsely populated, with under a million total residence. Its rural character will have its own effect on reducing transmission. Its largest city is only 180k, with the next biggest coming in under 70.

 

[Remius]

South Dakota's governor has been one of the most vocal for keeping her state open. It's going to be interesting and, I think, disheartening to see how that goes. At least it's sparsely populated, with under a million total residence. Its rural character will have its own effect on reducing transmission. Its largest city is only 180k, with the next biggest coming in under 70.

But can their healthcare system handle the increase?  It’s not like you can park a hospital ship there.

It will likely validate what other states have been doing to try and stop this.

 

[Jarnhamar]

New movie installment based off Max Brooks classic novel or anti stay-at-home protestors?

 

[mariomike]

People who believe in heaven still look both ways before crossing the street.

I look both ways twice in Japan. Good drivers. But, they drive on the wrong side of the road. 

 

[brihard]

But can their healthcare system handle the increase?  It’s not like you can park a hospital ship there.

It will likely validate what other states have been doing to try and stop this.

South Dakota's models anticipate a peak need of up to 650 ICU beds, and they're planning to surge to double that, or 1300. They presently have 250. They seem to feel they'll handle it. Their models assume 0.2% of infections will need a ventilator- or one vent for every 500 'right now' cases.

I wonder how they'll source additional critical care doctors, nurses, and respiratory therapists, though. And how their stocks of key medication for ventilated patients look.

https://www.keloland.com/keloland-com-original/south-dakota-hospitals-need-to-surge-icu-beds-as-covid-19-cases-spike-sioux-falls-opens-model-to-the-public/

 

[PuckChaser]

Since I haven't seen it posted, here's the US Government's phased plan to reopen their economy post-COVID-19. It's not the full document, just designed as a synopsis.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/