CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
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Jarnhamar
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[quote author=mariomike]
You can keep bringing up your favorite political chew toys. But, I won't be engaging with you today. Thank-you.
[/quote]
Too late, you already engaged me
But for clarity I meant that if 60% of the town didn't want the bike rally to take place and it still went ahead then the politicians in that town may have to deal with upset voters come election time. No hidden references or innuendo this time.
You can keep bringing up your favorite political chew toys. But, I won't be engaging with you today. Thank-you.
[/quote]
Too late, you already engaged me
But for clarity I meant that if 60% of the town didn't want the bike rally to take place and it still went ahead then the politicians in that town may have to deal with upset voters come election time. No hidden references or innuendo this time.
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Jarnhamar said:Too late, you already engaged me
But for clarity I meant that if 60% of the town didn't want the bike rally to take place and it still went ahead then the politicians in that town may have to deal with upset voters come election time. No hidden references or innuendo this time.
I'm not a scientist. But, I have read that some are concerned it could be a Covid "super-spreader" far beyond the south Dakota border. :dunno:
https://www.google.com/search?ei=e1MwX52oHOCtytMP7JWoqAY&q=super+spreader+sturgis&oq=super+spreader+sturgis&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQA1DIIVjIIWD2LGgAcAB4AIAB8wKIAc8DkgEFMS4zLTGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6wAEB&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjd0dqu8o7rAhXglnIEHewKCmUQ4dUDCAs&uact=5#spf=1597002626197
Brad Sallows
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Any large gathering has the potential to spread viruses. The bikers might as well have their fun, too.
OldSolduer
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Jarnhamar said:
I think I can agree with this. Yeah we can preach to them all we want but in the end it’s their decision.
Sometimes you can’t tell a Heinz pickle f*ck all,
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Jarnhamar said:
How so? Sweden didn't lock down compared to other European nations and has a higher per million morbidity rate (than the US). UK locked down and they're 50% higher than the US. There's absolutely no evidence that there's a magic system of controls that saves people once COVID has entered your society. There's even huge disparities in morbidity rates between US states.
Canada's case fatality rate adjusted for under reporting (asymptomatic people) is only marginally better than the US. https://www.cmaj.ca/content/192/25/E666 So did Canada screw the pooch as well or do the US numbers just look scary because they're over 10 times our population with 10 times the population density? Heck, New York City is 3/4 of Ontario's (which is 40% of Canada's total) population alone.
At the end of the day, who cares if the case numbers are super high? I'd rather they be high, with proper isolation from at-risk individuals to keep the overall case fatality rate as low as possible. We also have to balance that with keeping society free and operating at a reasonable level.
Brad Sallows
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Case count curve, hospitalization/ICU curve, fatality curve. Pay more attention to the latter two than the first one.
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PuckChaser said:
Brad Sallows said:
Agreed on both counts. We shouldn't be looking at total case count as a metric of any real utility, considering the still haphazard approach to testing and confirmation.
Hospitalization/ICU curve and fatalities are the red lines for social breakdown, and they are all that matter.
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Infanteer said:
Personally, speaking only for myself, I'm concerned with recovery rates.
eg: I don't know anyone who died of SARS. But, I don't know anyone who physically recovered from it either. At least not enough to return to Operations.
Not sure what the recovery rates are for Covid-19.
OceanBonfire
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Just glad we're not as awful as our neighbours:
don't pat yourself on the back too much. Here we gave our teachers a 5 percent raise to sit at home on their buts while we basically froze the front line workers salaries and took away their right to bargain, cancelled their holidays and made refusing a shift illegal. (Ontario).
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Here we go again with the anti-vaccine/anti-mask :Tin-Foil-Hat:
Published 23 hours ago
Anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers file $11M lawsuit against Trudeau
The group accuses the WHO, mainstream media and federal government of spreading false alarm
By Audrey Conklin | Fox News
https://www.foxnews.com/world/anti-vaccine-mask-lawsuit-trudeau
An Ontario-based anti-vaccination organization has filed an $11 million lawsuit against Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, the CBC reported Thursday.
The Vaccine Choice Canada and seven individuals are suing the Canadian and Ontario governments, the City of Toronto, a number of politicians and health authorities, as well as the CBC over their response to the coronavirus pandemic including business closures, mask mandates and social distancing rules.
The plaintiffs are arguing that the defendants' "extreme, unwarranted and unjustified" responses to the pandemic were "not scientific, nor medically based, nor proven." They also allege government mask mandates can cause "physical and psychological harm," according to the lawsuit.
"The plaintiffs state, and fact is, that the defendants have never acknowledged, addressed, spoken to, nor responded to...contrary expert views," the complaint reads.
The organization names websites including YouTube, Google, Yahoo and the CBC as platforms that have "intentionally suppressed, censored, belittled and removed the publication of any such contrary views, contrary to the principals and methodology of science and medicine," with government support.
The group also blames the World Health Organization, mainstream media and federal and local governments for facilitating the belief that COVID-19 is the "biggest threat to humanity in our lifetime," which they claim is false.
The virus has killed more than 760,000 people worldwide, and 20.9 million have been infected. Canada alone has confirmed about 121,000 COVID-19 cases, while the U.S. has confirmed more than 5 million and has seen hot spots fluctuate since it started spreading on a national scale in March.
While The Vaccine Choice of Canada describes itself as a non-profit that serves as a "public information and resource group committed to protecting children from the known risks of vaccines," Canadian health experts have taken issue with some of the group's past campaign messages for being misleading, the CBC noted.
The group shared the CBC's report about the lawsuit on its Twitter, Facebook and Instagram pages.
A number of Canadian medical companies in Phase 3 clinical trials are hoping to produce a coronavirus vaccine by the end of 2020, according to Dr. Theresa Tam, the country's chief public health officer. American companies have expressed similar expectations.
"We can’t at this stage just put all of our focus [on] the hopes that this is the silver bullet solution," Tam said of a vaccine on Aug. 4, according to Politico. "We’re planning, as a public health community, that we’re going to have to manage this pandemic — certainly over the next year, but planning for the longer term of the next two to three years."
Published 23 hours ago
Anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers file $11M lawsuit against Trudeau
The group accuses the WHO, mainstream media and federal government of spreading false alarm
By Audrey Conklin | Fox News
https://www.foxnews.com/world/anti-vaccine-mask-lawsuit-trudeau
An Ontario-based anti-vaccination organization has filed an $11 million lawsuit against Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, the CBC reported Thursday.
The Vaccine Choice Canada and seven individuals are suing the Canadian and Ontario governments, the City of Toronto, a number of politicians and health authorities, as well as the CBC over their response to the coronavirus pandemic including business closures, mask mandates and social distancing rules.
The plaintiffs are arguing that the defendants' "extreme, unwarranted and unjustified" responses to the pandemic were "not scientific, nor medically based, nor proven." They also allege government mask mandates can cause "physical and psychological harm," according to the lawsuit.
"The plaintiffs state, and fact is, that the defendants have never acknowledged, addressed, spoken to, nor responded to...contrary expert views," the complaint reads.
The organization names websites including YouTube, Google, Yahoo and the CBC as platforms that have "intentionally suppressed, censored, belittled and removed the publication of any such contrary views, contrary to the principals and methodology of science and medicine," with government support.
The group also blames the World Health Organization, mainstream media and federal and local governments for facilitating the belief that COVID-19 is the "biggest threat to humanity in our lifetime," which they claim is false.
The virus has killed more than 760,000 people worldwide, and 20.9 million have been infected. Canada alone has confirmed about 121,000 COVID-19 cases, while the U.S. has confirmed more than 5 million and has seen hot spots fluctuate since it started spreading on a national scale in March.
While The Vaccine Choice of Canada describes itself as a non-profit that serves as a "public information and resource group committed to protecting children from the known risks of vaccines," Canadian health experts have taken issue with some of the group's past campaign messages for being misleading, the CBC noted.
The group shared the CBC's report about the lawsuit on its Twitter, Facebook and Instagram pages.
A number of Canadian medical companies in Phase 3 clinical trials are hoping to produce a coronavirus vaccine by the end of 2020, according to Dr. Theresa Tam, the country's chief public health officer. American companies have expressed similar expectations.
"We can’t at this stage just put all of our focus [on] the hopes that this is the silver bullet solution," Tam said of a vaccine on Aug. 4, according to Politico. "We’re planning, as a public health community, that we’re going to have to manage this pandemic — certainly over the next year, but planning for the longer term of the next two to three years."
It’s fine. Let the rat-lickers have their day in court. The lawsuit apparently devolves quickly into abject nonsense. The court is obliged to at least initially hear it. I have no concerns that public health officials have anything to be concerned about.
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I’m okay with some of my taxes going to put these idiots’ faces in public view to provide all with visibility to people who wish to pedal ignorance and endanger others. They should have their photos published as part of the court proceedings...not just those pastel drawings...
shawn5o said:
Shawn, the comments under that story, some Canadians and some American, are telling of the support these anti-vaxxers bats are receiving. Comments are always worth having a look at to see how the story is received. This story seems to justify the anti-vaxxers case, mostly due to hate for Trudeau.
Canadians or Americans? Some of both because Trudeau's politics would be more anti-Trump as opposed to pro-Trump.
Just my observation on how support for this lawsuit will play out.
Always interested in your perceptions on that?
FJAG
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Donald H said:
I just love it when people pay gobs of money to lawyers to fight for a "principle". A true system of voluntary wealth transfer. Just make sure you get it up front. They get bitter when they lose, tend to strike out indiscriminately and not pay their final bill.
:stirpot:
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