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CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

Mick

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So Chinese Flu akin to Spanish flu would be acceptable then?
Perhaps the fact that "Chinese" refers not only to a nationality, but also to an ethnicity is why there is more sensitivity surrounding proper nomenclature for this virus.
 

Altair

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Oh for god sakes....sure yeah ok. Glad we agree then. You missed my point clearly.
The naming usually happens where it is first observed, not where it originates.

Due to spain not being at war, and their press not under censorship, it was first observed there.

Fast forward 100 years, we are unsure of where SARS-COV-2 originated, but it was first observed in Wuhan China. If the naming convention still holds true, then China virus or Wuhan virus would be acceptable.

To which I think is a stupid way to do things. But by that token, H1N1-18 SARS-CoV-2 B.1.1.7 P.1 B.1.351 B.1.617 should be what we collectively call these viruses and their variants going forward.

And no China/Wuhan bad, UK, SA, Brazil , Spanish, not as bad.

Both are bad.

Just use the scientific name. Or if you use the nations name, China is fair game.
 

Brad Sallows

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The sensitivity surrounding nomenclature is the Chinese government's obsession with "face".

Add: when people talk about a virus, they should know what they are talking about. Which one is it? Is it a bad one? The colloquial name encapsulates that information; the proper names are meaningless to a layperson. "B.1.351. Oh, yes, I remember now...the R-nought is this, the first identified case occurred in XYZ..."
 

Altair

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The sensitivity surrounding nomenclature is the Chinese government's obsession with "face".
Be that as it may, if this forces people, and the media to never use a countries name again, then something good came from it.

But to protect only China and let every other variant have a country tag reeks of hypocrisy of the highest level
 

Mick

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Remius

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Perhaps the fact that "Chinese" refers not only to a nationality, but also to an ethnicity is why there is more sensitivity surrounding proper nomenclature for this virus.
The WHO a has a rules about what they call any virus. They try to avoid anything that could be derogatory or could crate a stigma of some type.

as I mentioned, when this came out there was an attempt to use identity politics and ridiculous name like “Kung flu” etc. It was used to demean and insult. There was only one version of the virus and no variants. The variants do t get the same type of reaction because other derogatory terms aren’t being ascribed to them. If the virus had emanated in say Australia and the a variant started in China after, calling it the China variant would have likely not generated teh attention or reaction as it does now to cal, it the CCP virus, or whatever.

the fact is that the kind of language being used is giving rise to hate crimes against t Asians and Asian communities in North America. I can’t understand any justification of that type of language or the minimizing of the results of that.
 

Brad Sallows

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Be that as it may, if this forces people, and the media to never use a countries name again, then something good came from it.

No, not if it hinders clear communication.
 

Remius

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Be that as it may, if this forces people, and the media to never use a countries name again, then something good came from it.

But to protect only China and let every other variant have a country tag reeks of hypocrisy of the highest level
There are ways to call out China’s role in this mess. I’d rather see Asians as whole not stigmatized over this. Which they are and it starts with our language.
 

Jarnhamar

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AIDS is still associated with gay people and they have stigmatized for it for decades.
Aids is likely still associated with gay people in North America because in 2017 about 4.5% of Americans identified as LGBTQ (gallup) yet in 2018 gay men alone accounted for 69% of new HIV cases (cdc).

I would totally get behind this, except people went on and talked about

British Variant
Brazilian Variant
South African Variant
And now there is talk of the Indian Variant

The only one people got up in arms about was the Chinese one, which kind of says all I need to know.

I thought this was a really good point.
 
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Altair

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There are ways to call out China’s role in this mess. I’d rather see Asians as whole not stigmatized over this. Which they are and it starts with our language.
Who is calling out what?

I'm simply saying it was first observed in Wuhan China, which is simply fact.

Beyond that, one should call it SARS-Cov-2 or Covid 19. And protect people everywhere by simply using the medical name.

I don't believe in protecting Asians over Blacks, Blacks over Whites, Whites over Latin Americans, I believe in protecting everyone.
 

Mick

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The sensitivity surrounding nomenclature is the Chinese government's obsession with "face".

Add: when people talk about a virus, they should know what they are talking about. Which one is it? Is it a bad one? The colloquial name encapsulates that information; the proper names are meaningless to a layperson. "B.1.351. Oh, yes, I remember now...the R-nought is this, the first identified case occurred in XYZ..."

Calling COVID 19 by it's official, and widely-used name has nothing to do with politics, or one's political views. Can the same be said for referring to it as "China Virus, Wuhan Flu, CCP Virus"?
 

PMedMoe

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A BBC article from Feb 2020

The tricky politics of naming the new coronavirus

"So what should the ideal name look like?

First, it should be unique. Calling the new virus the Wuhan coronavirus would have been problematic, explains Kuhn, who is a member of the International Committee on Taxonomy of Viruses. There are already 17 or so “Wuhan” viruses in existence, which range from cricket viruses to mosquito viruses, and most are harmless to people. Any name that links these to a human outbreak may complicate matters and make them harder to research."

No, not if it hinders clear communication.
How could calling something by it's proper nomenclature hinder clear communication?

There's nothing wrong with saying something like "COVID-19, which was first identified near Wuhan, China" or "Variant B.1.1.7, first detected in the U.K." but when someone continually calls COVID-19 the "Wuhan Virus", the "Chinese Virus" or, yes, even the "CCP Virus", we all know what they really mean. Or they're just being willfully obtuse.
 

Brad Sallows

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I think adults can understand a simple statement

Sure, adults can understand a statement, or a paragraph, or an essay. The natural evolution of language and communications, though, is to concise and accurate forms. I can guess that when scientists talk about viruses, they use colloquial names.

I can also guess that this would not have become a big deal if the virus had not emerged in China.

Calling COVID 19 by it's official, and widely-used name has nothing to do with politics

It may have everything to do with politics - the interests of the Chinese government's politics, in particular. Hence the intensity with which usage is being policed.
 

Altair

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Sure, adults can understand a statement, or a paragraph, or an essay. The natural evolution of language and communications, though, is to concise and accurate forms. I can guess that when scientists talk about viruses, they use colloquial names.

I can also guess that this would not have become a big deal if the virus had not emerged in China.



It may have everything to do with politics - the interests of the Chinese government's politics, in particular. Hence the intensity with which usage is being policed.
Yes, that is blatantly transparent.

But, again, if it leads to people moving away from nation names I'll accept it.
 

Mick

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Sure, adults can understand a statement, or a paragraph, or an essay. The natural evolution of language and communications, though, is to concise and accurate forms. I can guess that when scientists talk about viruses, they use colloquial names.

I can also guess that this would not have become a big deal if the virus had not emerged in China.



It may have everything to do with politics - the interests of the Chinese government's politics, in particular. Hence the intensity with which usage is being policed.
I haven't heard any doctors or researchers refer to "China Virus" or "CCP Virus". Only politicians, or those wishing to make a political statement.

I also haven't heard any doctors / researchers refer to "Her Majesty's Government's Variant" or the "Brazil Virus".

It's common knowledge that this pandemic originated in China, and it was common knowledge before "China Virus" and similar terms were coined by politicians, in order to assign blame.

"XX Variant" doesn't have the same connotation, and has been used objectively by researchers / doctors, without political undertones.

Context and intent matters.
 

Altair

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I haven't heard any doctors or researchers refer to "China Virus" or "CCP Virus". Only politicians, or those wishing to make a political statement.

I also haven't heard any doctors / researchers refer to "Her Majesty's Government's Variant" or the "Brazil Virus".

It's common knowledge that this pandemic originated in China, and it was common knowledge before "China Virus" and similar terms were coined by politicians, in order to assign blame.

"XX Variant" doesn't have the same connotation, and has been used objectively by researchers / doctors, without political undertones.

Context and intent matters.
Just UK variant and Brazilian variant.

Along with South African variant and Indian variant.
 
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