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Censorship starts with porn

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excellent article

John Moore: Censorship starts with porn
John Moore | 13/07/25
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/07/25/john-moore-censorship-starts-with-porn/

Censorship always sounds like a practical notion at first blush. There are objectionable and dangerous things in the world, and we would all be the better if they were suppressed, or at the very least, harder to access.

So British Prime Minister David Cameron’s proposal that Internet providers filter pornography and limit access to those who specifically request adult content sounds harmless enough. After all, children will be protected from accidentally stumbling across trans-sexual rape fantasies while searching for the latest accessory for their American Girl doll. In these pages, National Post columnist Barbara Kay recently applauded the initiative as “long-overdue.”

The problem with censorship is that its advocates always presume that whoever becomes gate keeper will be as sensible and worldly as they are. I enjoy reading Ms. Kay’s columns, but the idea of her deciding what I can and cannot consume on the Internet is about as appealing to me as the notion of an Imam filtering content would be to her.

Or … perhaps I am on to something, here. Why not let the religious faithful nominate the sites that would be available only by “special request”? Obviously, they would start with pornography — and we all know the world would be a better place without porn. If the censorship committee included Evangelical Christians and Mormons I suppose, we would also have to start filtering for any suggestion of premarital sex, unfaithfulness or homosexuality. And really, if we’re going to be even-handed about things, the Amish need to have a say. So, no buttons.

Because sites that provide instructions on how to turn a pressure cooker into a bomb serve no purpose but to promote terror attacks, we could block them as well. While we’re at it, we could block the sites that foment the kind of political dissent that leads to terror in the first place. And if we’re going to filter for sedition, we might as well censor anything that militates against the established wisdom of the government of the day. In Canada, that would be David Suzuki, Maude Barlow and the NDP.

Here’s a radical idea: Let’s subcontract Internet-governance to the Taliban. When they aren’t busy shooting Pakistani school girls for mouthing off, they can filter websites for other depictions of female willfulness and depravity. After all, there is no greater authority on female virtue than Islamists.

Soon the Internet would be reduced to videos of cats flushing toilets … although, because the depiction of toilets is objectionable in some circles, I suppose we would have to censor those as well.

The Internet is about the free access to, and dissemination of, information. Dictatorships the world over think they are doing their own people a service by cutting them off from Twitter, Facebook and Google. It makes perfect sense to the Chinese communists to prevent citizens from seeing content that might undermine public order.

So allow me to be the guy who stands up for porn. If you don’t want your kids to see it, create your own filter. Then see how long it takes them to work around it anyway.
end
 
I'd have to disagree whole-heartedly with Moore's speculations.  It sounds to me as though he falls into the category of 'don't-tell-me-what-you-think-is-best-for-me,-I-can-do-what-I-want-when-I-want-and-how-I-want' persons, rather than contemplating the reasons for why such an idea has been brought forward in the first place. Which is to try and protect certain people--Not ruin anyone's fun.

Before I continue, I'll make it clear that I personally have no issues with those who fancy some 'inspiration' here and there. Be it individually, as an adult couple, etc., etc. I'm one of them. I feel exploring sexuality and learning what can enhance that aspect of one's life is healthy. However...

It's no secret that pornography can have extremely detrimental effects to certain people. Mainly, yes, younger individuals. Viewing its contents can evoke feelings that they're not emotionally equipped to decipher and/or handle appropriately. (Let's be clear: I'm not saying every 10yr. who accidentally stumbles across something they shouldn't have will end up having violent tendencies, trying to act out what they saw with another child, etc. But the fact is, some do. Some may also develop emotional/behavioral issues, become addicted...Too many studies to cite and articles to read about personal accounts of these situations taking place.)

What is so inherently wrong with creating some sort of 'opt-in' scenario to try and protect our kids? No one is saying no more porn. Not everyone has the know-how to create useful and proficient filtering mechanisms. And as easy as it is to say 'monitor your kids when they're on the PC', we all realistically know that a parent can't sit and watch the monitor every minute that a child is on the computer.

We already have planned safe-guards in place for our 3.5 yr old who can maneuver the IPad better than most adults and he can't even spell yet.  He will not have a computer in his room, he will not have a cell phone with net-access until a certain age, etc, etc. But I'm also realistic that he will likely be exposed to things when not in my home.

Moore sounds selfish and whiny.

Not everyone is negatively affected by the same stimuli equally. But I personally don't want to take the chance with how my son's young mind could be influenced by some of the disgusting imagery circulating these days. If you want to access it, fine. Create a username and password and access it to your heart's content.

My  :2c:
 
Because now a list exists that says you enjoy something someone else has deemed questionable or offensive.  You're letting the government do your parenting for you, that's Nickelodeon's job, not the governments.
 
Kat Stevens said:
Because now a list exists that says you enjoy something someone else has deemed questionable or offensive.  You're letting the government do your parenting for you, that's Nickelodeon's job, not the governments.

I understand and I do agree to a certain extent. I suppose the problem for me is essentially how can society/a specific corporation/government/whathaveyou monitor what is being uploaded and available on the Internet? Does everything that's available on he internet need to be there? (Rhetorical.) Would I feel any better if it were an entity that I trusted and/or had total faith in? Of course, they can't and I probably wouldn't.

I'm typically old-fashioned when it comes to a lot of my thinking/ideas on things, but I believe in that "..it takes a village..." sentiment. So many people in this world have the power and knowledge to be truly positive influences in every child's life, both behind the scenes and more prominently.  While I am extremely assertive in establishing the groundwork for how I want mychild raised, if there's someone out there who ultimately has his best interests in mind, I'm open to hearing how we can go about making that happen.  There will probably be some trial and error, but speaking specifically of the Internet, I feel something definitely needs to be done.  I would be willing to give up a little something if I know my child and his friends could benefit in the long run.
 
And I think that was what the whole article was about
 
BeyondTheNow said:
I'd have to disagree whole-heartedly with Moore's speculations.  It sounds to me as though he falls into the category of 'don't-tell-me-what-you-think-is-best-for-me,-I-can-do-what-I-want-when-I-want-and-how-I-want' persons, rather than contemplating the reasons for why such an idea has been brought forward in the first place. Which is to try and protect certain people--Not ruin anyone's fun.

Before I continue, I'll make it clear that I personally have no issues with those who fancy some 'inspiration' here and there. Be it individually, as an adult couple, etc., etc. I'm one of them. I feel exploring sexuality and learning what can enhance that aspect of one's life is healthy. However...

It's no secret that pornography can have extremely detrimental effects to certain people. Mainly, yes, younger individuals. Viewing its contents can evoke feelings that they're not emotionally equipped to decipher and/or handle appropriately. (Let's be clear: I'm not saying every 10yr. who accidentally stumbles across something they shouldn't have will end up having violent tendencies, trying to act out what they saw with another child, etc. But the fact is, some do. Some may also develop emotional/behavioral issues, become addicted...Too many studies to cite and articles to read about personal accounts of these situations taking place.)

What is so inherently wrong with creating some sort of 'opt-in' scenario to try and protect our kids? No one is saying no more porn. Not everyone has the know-how to create useful and proficient filtering mechanisms. And as easy as it is to say 'monitor your kids when they're on the PC', we all realistically know that a parent can't sit and watch the monitor every minute that a child is on the computer.

We already have planned safe-guards in place for our 3.5 yr old who can maneuver the IPad better than most adults and he can't even spell yet.  He will not have a computer in his room, he will not have a cell phone with net-access until a certain age, etc, etc. But I'm also realistic that he will likely be exposed to things when not in my home.

Moore sounds selfish and whiny.

Not everyone is negatively affected by the same stimuli equally. But I personally don't want to take the chance with how my son's young mind could be influenced by some of the disgusting imagery circulating these days. If you want to access it, fine. Create a username and password and access it to your heart's content.

My  :2c:

You would have been a shoe in to work for Premier Dad here in Ontario. That putz tried to legislate almost every aspect of Ontarians lives and decide himself what was good for everyone.

Don't want your kids to see porn?

Start supervising them, or at minimum, set your filters.

People with concerns should start watching their own kids and be responsible instead of letting the government babysit their kids for them.

It should be up to those that don't want it, to opt out.

Not for the rest of us to opt in, and place ourselves at their whim.


Oh, and that "It Takes a Village" stuff is just more Hillary Clinton bullshit.

I don't want a villiage, with it's idiots and socialists raising my kids.

I want a close group of people I know and trust.
 
I tend to see things in subtle shades.

As a starting point this new law puts the technical onus on the internet service providers to establish some type of filtering system that allows a specific IP address to either receive or block access to porn. Accordingly it would be six of one or half a dozen of the other to create a system where users either 1. request access, or 2 request a block.

Here's the subtle difference: 1 requesting access puts you on a list of known porn users while 2 requesting blockage puts you on a list of virtuous citizens.

My choice for a system would have been system 2 because it does not create a list of users with negative connotations. Using system 1 on the other hand, because of its negative connotations, is a not so subtle form of human engineering designed to shame certain people from not requesting access.

The actual system which will be put in place may tell us how much this will become an oppressive system - will user lists be accessible by the police? with or without warrant? what privacy protection is there for users? etc?

Small side issue. Many users now have multiple computers serviced by a wireless network within their house which shares one common IP address with the service provider through a router. This will probably result in either the whole house accessing porn or blocking it. Should make for an interesting discussion between hubby and the wife if he "requests" access to porn and then sets up a local filter.  ;D
 
FJAG said:
Small side issue. Many users now have multiple computers serviced by a wireless network within their house which shares one common IP address with the service provider through a router. This will probably result in either the whole house accessing porn or blocking it. Should make for an interesting discussion between hubby and the wife if he "requests" access to porn and then sets up a local filter.  ;D
Implying, of course, that only men surf porn.  ::)
 
garb811 said:
Implying, of course, that only men surf porn.  ::)

Good point.

I plead guilty of making stereotypical assumptions.

:sorry:
 
Kids are smart.  If properly motivated, any 15 year old and some average google-fu will quickly find a way to bypass filters rendering any law useless. 
 
You would have been a shoe in to work for Premier Dad here in Ontario. That putz tried to legislate almost every aspect of Ontarians lives and decide himself what was good for everyone.

I am here also and I don't disagree with you in the least. 'Absolutely not a fan of "Premier Dad." To clarify, I don't feel my wanting to see a particular area regulated means that I'm in favour of the government controlling all aspects of one's life.

Start supervising them, or at minimum, set your filters.

People with concerns should start watching their own kids and be responsible instead of letting the government babysit their kids for them.

Agreed. The parent(s) must take appropriate actions to safeguard against certain aspects they deem inappropriate. No argument on that point at all.

However, I personally don't view it as a trying-to-control-someone's-life/personal-choices issue when someone or a group of people recognizes that a specific matter (in this case pornography and its accessibility) may be out of control. The sheer volume and content that is available these days is, unfortunately, beyond a single parent's control--Regardless of what steps they take.  One may or may not disagree with that point, but it's how I feel.

It should be up to those that don't want it, to opt out.

This is an excellent argument. But it can be taken the other way also. Why should an individual have to pay extra money (assuming they decide to purchase additional software beyond their standard protection software that may come with their provider) to shield themselves from an individual being gang-r*ped (whether legit or simulated) because another individual felt it their right to record and post it in the first place and it's cleverly titled "Hello-Kitty T-shirt Got Torn Apart"? (Harsh example, but it's these sorts of items I take particluar issue with.) The reason the Internet, which is an amazing tool, is filled with obscene and often illegal material is because people don't like being told what they can and can't do. It's been proven time and time again that when left to their own devices, mankind eventually needs some guidance.

Oh, and that "It Takes a Village" stuff is just more Hillary Clinton bullshit.

I don't want a villiage, with it's idiots and socialists raising my kids.

I don't subscribe to Hilary Clinton either.  The statement just happens to be something I have seen work effectively on a personal level, and to which I can take the positives from. However, you are correct with your close and trusted friends/loved ones point-of-view as well. 
 
This is an excellent argument. But it can be taken the other way also. Why should an individual have to pay extra money (assuming they decide to purchase additional software beyond their standard protection software that may come with their provider) to shield themselves from an individual being gang-r*ped (whether legit or simulated) because another individual felt it their right to record and post it in the first place and it's cleverly titled "Hello-Kitty T-shirt Got Torn Apart"? (Harsh example, but it's these sorts of items I take particluar issue with.)

There is no filter software in the world that would protect you from that.  Porn can be posted to youtube and will stay there unless flagged down by other users.  From a filtering software point of view.  It is seen as a legitimate video file being sent from an legitimate site.  The only thing that might stop it is any tags associated with it.  Another example; you are going to download a really old TV show you can't find anywhere else.  You find the video on megauploads or some other file sharing site.  Any home filter will allow you to download or stream the video file, it will not be able to distinguish the content.

It gets even more difficult with picture files.  Those little emoticons up top ( :salute: :facepalm: :'( ::)) are all .GIF files.  A filter cannot see what the .gif file is.  Now there can be all kinds of information and pictures inbeded into .GIF files as well.

Another example are shock sites.  Please don't actually go to any, there is a reason why they are called SHOCK sites.  But these sites are designed to go around filters, and their images are well... shocking.
 
And as an added bonus, all kinds of electronic equipment is web enabled. A friend of ours had a rather shocking moment when they came home unexpectedly and found the kids looking at porn on the Wii game console (yes, that does sound like the setup of a really bad joke). And what can you get on your smartphone? And of course public WiFi hotspots and Internet Cafe's can allow unfettered and relatively anonymous access.

With the "Internet of things" your household appliances will be accessing the web in order to communicate with each other to load share  (don't start the refrigerator until the washing machine is done, in order to reduce voltage spikes in usage) and communicate with the local utilities for billing purposes. Of course, the interface might take a bit of deciphering, but if the fridge can download information from the web it is only a matter of time before people can learn to hack the local home appliances.

So the primary purpose of the law seems to be more about data collection (which seems to be the primary activity of the State these days. "1984" has become a "how to" manual for the Government rather than a warning) rather than any practical means of "protecting" or social engineering.
 
What happened to the good old days where kids watched soft porn on show case or attempting to watch the porn channel through static where you could barely see anything?
 
I think people need to stop seeing things as all or nothing. You can get carried away with censorship but you can also get carried away with freedom. If we remove the evolvement of emotion and religion then we might find some common ground. I don't think a little more sex and a little less violence would hurt the world but I draw a line in the sand based on one simple question. Does it hurt anybody else?
 
Only if they choose to look at it,  turn on your own morality filter and decide for yourself if you want to view it or not.  Don't place my name on a list because I may decide as an adult that it's something I wish to view.
 
Cbbmtt said:
What happened to the good old days where kids watched soft porn on show case or attempting to watch the porn channel through static where you could barely see anything?

It flew out the window when your 15 year old can stream porn on their cellphone, or on the TV built into your kitchen fridge.

My biggest problem are the parents.  If you don't want your kids to watch porn, have an open discussion with them.  If they don't listen to you, you now have justification to beat them senseless.***  But seriously.  As a parent it is your responsibility to education your children.  Engage with them, talk with them and find out what they are doing.  It is not the states , or TVs, or the internets job to police our bedrooms and to raise our young.



***DISCLAIMER: Not actually advocating physical violence, it was in jest and sarcastic.  Any kind of physical violence towards others, especially young adults should be immediately reported to the proper authorities.
 
I saw an article that this would actually a good thing in a different sense, in that it would provide incentive for people to develop (or support those who develop) ever more sophisticated means for individuals to bypass such filters and remain anonymous on the internet.

One of the more oft mentioned products (at least in Maximum PC), is TOR.
 
All this...in spite of Cameron's attempts to censor porn. Why am I not surprised?  ;D

link

Porn website requests from British Parliament allegedly in the thousands
By Tori Floyd

By Tori Floyd | The Right Click – 5 hours ago

As if British Prime Minister David Cameron wasn’t having a hard enough time selling his pornography-blocking plan already, some recently released information about the activities of those in the House of Parliament may make his job even tougher.

Following a Freedom of Information request by Huffington Post UK, it was found that there had been attempts to access pornographic material by users of the Parliamentary Network servers more than 300,000 times. That network is used by the approximately 5,000 people on the parliamentary estate, BBC reports, and is made up of MPs, staff members and their visitors.

According to the information obtained by Huffington Post, the peak number of attempts to access pornographic websites on the network peaked last November (for the one year period under scrutiny) with 114,844 requests.

Here’s the month-by-month breakdown:

May 2012: 2141
June 2012: 2261

July 2012: 6024

August 2012: 26,952

September 2012: 15,804

October 2012: 3391

November 2012: 114,844

December 2012: 6918
January 2013: 18494
February 2013: 15

March 2013: 22,470

April 2013: 55,552

May 2013: 18,346

June 2013: 397

July 2013: 15,707

(...)
 
I've seen the same thing happen while we were deployed.

Many of the things required by our cell required Goggle and open internet searches.

IT guys checked our computers and lo and behold, tons of links and images.

They tried to raise a stink, and get people charged till someone with real teach savvy narrowed it down and gave the true explanation.

All background shyte from suspicious sites that embedded in the hard drives.

The key is 'attempted' to access the sites, which is what will show, for popup, cookies, etc, instead of 'accessed' the sites if you intentionally went there.

More journalistic sensationalistic bullshit. Making the news instead of reporting it.
 
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