CF member as a single parent-on course, deployed ect... [MERGED]

[vonGarvin]

True.  Compassionate postings are good as a stop-gap measure in situations that are crappy, and as a tool, they are worth their weight in gold in accomodating service members so that they can sort things out.  But if things do turn around 360 degrees (eg: going back to the way they were heading in the first place), then other solutions have to be found, which may involve a career change.

I've known a few service members who did get compassionate status for a variety of reasons, and in every case, they were able to sort things out.  But in the end, there is the old adage: service before self, meaning that in the end, we (eg: the CF at large) can only accomodate for so long.  It's unfortunate in some cases, but there is a very good reason for it.


(Edited for clarity)

 

[CountDC]

Keep the memos handy.  As a sea trade on the coast (assuming you are still coastal) the shore posting can very quickly change into sailing again. 

 

[Springroll]

I am still coastal, but with us having many ships heading into the Felex program, they are making most of the positions available on the ships only available to those requiring the training (I am 5A qual'd now, so don't require the training like a 4's trainee). I have also thought about remustering, and am currently seeing what options I have open to me, but nothing have really peaked my interested quite like going UTPNCM actually...that would keep me ashore til my youngest is either 15-16 and the other two would be 18 and 21 and hopefully moved out, and in the end, its a nicer pension  ;D  I think in the end, i would miss not going to sea, but I really have to focus on progression here, both at work and at home.

I really feel that luck was on my side with this posting, and since it wasn't on a compassionate basis, it won't affect my ability to merit next year.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

but nothing have really peaked my interested quite like going UTPNCM actually...that would keep me ashore til my youngest is either 15-16 and the other two would be 18 and 21 and hopefully moved out, and in the end, its a nicer pension  ;D 

A truly great reason to volunteer to be an officer.  Be sure to mention that during your interview.  If you somehow get accepted, please be sure to tell all of your troops that what motivated you to become their leader was to have an easier go.  I am sure that they will gladly follow you anywhere after that...

:facepalm:

 

[Infanteer]

I have also thought about remustering, and am currently seeing what options I have open to me, but nothing have really peaked my interested quite like going UTPNCM actually...that would keep me ashore til my youngest is either 15-16 and the other two would be 18 and 21 and hopefully moved out, and in the end, its a nicer pension  ;D 

Don't worry, if you do fill that billet up, I'm sure someone else will be there to pick up your slack....where have all the tigers gone?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

If I understand Springroll correctly, the fact that she is a single parent has prevented her from sailing and contributing to CF in her current trade.  Now, she wants to go to school, on the CF's dime, become an officer, on the CF's dime, all so that she can stay ashore and avoid deploying.

I would say that that takes the "I'm putting self before service" award for this week...

 

[HItorMiss]

Gone are the days where it is Mission Men Self and if you never got to self well like forced rest you just did without.

I work at CFLRS and I truly say with shame "I weep for the future of my Military"

 

[aesop081]

If I understand Springroll correctly, the fact that she is a single parent has prevented her from sailing and contributing to CF in her current trade.  Now, she wants to go to school, on the CF's dime, become an officer, on the CF's dime, all so that she can stay ashore and avoid deploying.

I would say that that takes the "I'm putting self before service" award for this week...

You forgot the pension..........don't forget the pension.

 

[Melbatoast]

I'm not joining the dogpile here but UTP isn't something you take lightly.  It's extremely competitive (3 guys for my occupation this year), and despite the very occasional shall we say "surprising" selection, the NCMs selected are pretty high speed/low drag.  I had to apply three times before I was successful, and had to put a lot of effort in each year to improve - and I thought I was pretty good the first time.  One of the keys is to contribute as much as possible to your current job, which can make for an intense shore posting (ask me how I know).

That said there's nothing preventing you from giving it a shot, and as a side benefit yes you will get a few more years ashore.  But then you are a junior officer working your ass off.  It's a great program but it's not an easy go, and keep in mind as well they try to send as many people as possible to RMC.

 

[Springroll]

As a bit of a clarification, I said that UTPNCM is an option, along with also remustering. I have been in contact with a few officers who have done it, and am still in my options stage. I have not begun planning or anything, just seeking information on all my options. A benefit of going UTPNCM is not only the CF paying for additional education, having more of a career challenge, and of course, at the end of my career, having a nicer pension then as an NCM. Come on people...you don't agree that more money at retirement would be nicer?

All I am trying to do is juggle being a single parent with the needs of my career. My children have sacrificed alot (and yes, I already know what you are going to say), and it would be nice to be able to give them a bit of a break from me going to sea and also to find a way to build my career and challenge myself.

Isn't that something most people want?

 

[SupersonicMax]

I think it is clear that Sprinroll (and her kids) have done a lot of sacrifices over the last 3 years, spending 1/3 of the time at sea.  I think, by doing that and going through with her sea posting, she proved that service is before self.  At some time though, we need to give the members a break, especially when it is possible to do so.  Some can take more than others (so to speak).  Some will just "suck it up", others will talk about it.  But in the end, their morale will be affected and productivity will likely be affected.  Frankly, someone cannot, 100% of the time be 100% dedicated to the CF.  If you want a life outside the CF (ie: partner, kids, friends), you will need to compromise and juggle career, family, friends, etc.  And I believe the system is designed that way.  I have seen it fail, where the system burns out its people, but most of the time it works.

Luckily, in this case, the system worked and her CoC realized that she needed time at home, and posted her ashore.  Facing the inevitable, a following sea posting, she comes up with solutions that will enable her to become more effective in the long run (a gain for the CF).  While weighting the pros and cons of every solution, who in their right mind would not consider financial and personal gain.  Nobody is immune to that.  I think it's clear that someone that is happy in what they are doing and the way they are treated are going to be more productive and unhappy members..  I have seen too many members that hated their jobs/working conditions and poisoned the work environment.

So to me, if her reasoning for going the UTPNCM route is that she will be happier in her job, I say go for it.  It will benefit the CF in the long run.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

So to me, if her reasoning for going the UTPNCM route is that she will be happier in her job, I say go for it.  It will benefit the CF in the long run.

And there is the problem.  Being an officer is not "a job".  It is a calling.  It should and does demand even greater sacrifices on behalf of those led, and demands an even greater sense of service before self.

 

[ballz]

I see we're still in the business of taking a sentence or two and putting it through an exceptionally thorough analysis process :deadhorse:

Maybe we should split this thread for those who want to discuss why everyone should do what everyone else thinks they should do and why... oh wait, we've got those already, too...

EDIT to add: This thread is easy to search for and provides some good info/insight for those wondering about the topic... this new charade really ought to be done elsewhere to keep it that way.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I see we're still in the business of taking a sentence or two and putting it through an exceptionally thorough analysis process :deadhorse:

Maybe we should split this thread for those who want to discuss why everyone should do what everyone else thinks they should do and why... oh wait, we've got those already, too...

EDIT to add: This thread is easy to search for and provides some good info/insight for those wondering about the topic... this new charade really ought to be done elsewhere to keep it that way.

No Ballz, that is not what is going on here.  Some of the more senior members here (in the sense of years of military experience) are simply pointing out that the CF is built on the concept of "service before self".  While there will be many single parents in the CF (for many reasons), it is unrealistic to expect that, over the long run, they will get to consistently wave the "I'm a single parent, you can't deploy me" card.  Or that they can organize their career or life to be home at 1600hrs everyday, while their kids are school aged.

The point we are trying to make is, that single parents do have to decide, at some point, if the demands of service life are compatible with being a parent. The CF is not a giant daycare. 

And running away to be an officer, contrary to popular belief, makes it even more difficult to be a single parent.  Your time is even less your own.

But hey- if you and Max, with your vast experience in leading troops, want to have an opinion- who am I to stop you.

 

[aesop081]

Fair points from several people, from "both" points of view. However, i have to ask :

You were at sea 347 days in 3 years and your kids had issues. What were you expecting it would be like when you joined the Navy ? You even picked a hard sea trade.

 

[vonGarvin]

And running away to be an officer, contrary to popular belief, makes it even more difficult to be a single parent.  Your time is even less your own.

Though I am a parent, I am not a single parent.  I am a product of the UTPNCM, and I have found that I am working much longer hours now as a senior officer than I was as a senior captain.  If I were a single parent, I'm not sure that I would have been able to maintain these hours.  For info, the hours varied and at times included Sunday evenings.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Fair points from several people, from "both" points of view. However, i have to ask :

You were at sea 347 days in 3 years and your kids had issues. What were you expecting it would be like when you joined the Navy ? You even picked a hard sea trade.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!  Did you not know you had kids when you signed up for a job afloat?

 

[ballz]

No Ballz, that is not what is going on here.  Some of the more senior members here (in the sense of years of military experience) are simply pointing out that the CF is built on the concept of "service before self".  While there will be many single parents in the CF (for many reasons), it is unrealistic to expect that, over the long run, they will get to consistently wave the "I'm a single parent, you can't deploy me" card.  Or that they can organize their career or life to be home at 1600hrs everyday, while their kids are school aged.

The point we are trying to make is, that single parents do have to decide, at some point, if the demands of service life are compatible with being a parent. The CF is not a giant daycare. 

And running away to be an officer, contrary to popular belief, makes it even more difficult to be a single parent.  Your time is even less your own.

But hey- if you and Max, with your vast experience in leading troops, want to have an opinion- who am I to stop you.

Really, if that was the point you were all trying to make, fine and dandy, it was made with the first five of you that posted it. But if single parents didn't get it in the first five posts I doubt they'll get that point after another page and a half.

All that happened was a thread for single parents with advice and support for each other got turned the other way around. I don't see where I stated any opinion on your point, nay, I refrained from stating an opinion because it would detract from mine, which is that these opinions (yours/mine/theirs) belongs elsewhere, not in this thread, but in the many threads we have on it (being an officer and service before self, etc, there's a few of them around.).

Now, when a single parent uses the search function, why would they bother even reading through this rubbish? They'll start a different thread and get jumped by you senior folk for not using the search function.

Now we've got 2 senior members (both of the site and the CF) harping on her for "knowing what she signed up for" when in fact, if you read the thread, she was a married mother of three, already in the CF, and ended up divorced. How do you fine folks know she hasn't already sacrificed a husband for the CF?

But hey, thanks for sorting me out, you really got me there with the vast experience thing. I'll just crawl back in the corner now and let you all deteriorate what was a useful thread to the point that it gets locked up because it is now a useless thread and no one is actually helping anybody. Shouldn't be a long wait...

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Ballz,

I respectfully disagree with your assessment that this thread has now been "ruined".  On the contrary, I believe some reality and common sense has been reinjected.

Fact: There are single parents in the CF.

Fact: from time-to-time, they may (or may not) need some special consideration.

Fact: To expect, as a single parent, that you can do large parts of your CF career without threat of deployment or operational employment, just because you have kids to look after is unrealistic.  Those people may be forced to chose between parenting and having a career in the CF.  The CF is, first and foremost, about fighting.  Life is about choices.  That is the only point that I am trying to make- single parents, if they are not yet in the CF, have to have realistic expectations about what they are getting themselves into.  People who find themselves as single parents after joining the CF, must also do a realistic assessment of the balance that they can maintain between being an effective parent and being an effective CF member.  Some people find that they can do both very well- more power to them.  Others- not so much.  You may find what I am saying to be cruel and hard-hearted, but it is not, nor is it intended to be.

 

[ballz]

You may find what I am saying to be cruel and hard-hearted, but it is not, nor is it intended to be.

No, I don't at all. I'm going to PM you so that this thread has a glimmer of hope of getting back on its original track though.