Change of Command drill question / passing of the Colours and Swagger (Pace) stick

[Colin Parkinson]

When I took a sig course in Shilo back in the 80's I noted how long the regular army spent standing around every day waiting to be told what to do for the day, not the best use of time. A COC parade happen what every 2 years? At which point most people could use a drill refresher anyways. We just did a COC, Divisional Inspection and Change of Coxswain for our Cadet Corp, Which took less than two hours, along with a marchpast and 4 speeches.

 

[dapaterson]

The second to last CoC I attended had no marchpasts, a few promotions, and, including speeches from the presiding officer and incoming and outgoing COs took less than an hour. Prep time was about two hours, to teach carbine drill.

And while I may be biased, I think the outgoing CO did a decent job of making it more about the troops than about himself.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Another opinion, somewhat traditionalist.

Change of Command – The Ceremony - Royal United Services Institute of Nova Scotia

The Change of Command ceremony is a cornerstone of the Canadian Armed Forces and the Royal Canadian Navy, steeped with tradition.

rusi-ns.ca

. . .
The Change of Command ceremony is a critical cornerstone of the Canadian Armed Forces and the RCN. For those charged with the defence of our country, they will be entrusted with power and authority that few Canadians will ever experience. If we may borrow from Stan Lee’s Spider-Man, the Peter Parker Principle states that with great power comes great responsibility.

Our adherence and observance of ceremony, customs, and traditions reaffirms and strengthens within us an appreciation of the trust the people of Canada have granted us for over 110 years. The Change of Command ceremony displays for all the transparent transition of power and authority, identifying who has been delegated the power and to whom they are responsible.
. . .

 

[Good2Golf]

Perhaps a critical thought factor is to ask oneself if 1-2 days of parade prep/execution is a waste, can one honestly say that the unit is 100% productive for the other 363-364 days of the year???

 

[Eye In The Sky]

If The RCAF or RCN want to dispense with parades go ahead.

I think what we are doing is minimizing the time/effort that is very well better spent on our primary tasks at my Sqn, while marking the CofC at the same time.

I can say with no hesitation my current Sqn runs at close to max capacity with surges a reality and has a fairly important mission to complete. Minimizing ceremonial tasks is a good thing this year in particular.

Win/win.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Small addition to above; the more significant relaxation is the Wing CofC that is coming up. It will also be small, only Command Teams to attend. No Flts, no Colour Parties.

This frees up people to do the work that was done at a lessened capacity during the 2 years of significant impact by COVID. Not just the flying squadrons, but the entire Wing.

I suspect it will be temporary as well though.

 

[dimsum]

I suspect it will be temporary as well though.

Like Income Tax.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Another opinion, somewhat traditionalist.

Change of Command – The Ceremony - Royal United Services Institute of Nova Scotia

The Change of Command ceremony is a cornerstone of the Canadian Armed Forces and the Royal Canadian Navy, steeped with tradition.

rusi-ns.ca

Oh god the RUSI ...

Perhaps a critical thought factor is to ask oneself if 1-2 days of parade prep/execution is a waste, can one honestly say that the unit is 100% productive for the other 363-364 days of the year???

Absolutely. Ships crews, I would argue, are probably the busiest entities in the CAF. It's shocking to most the first time they experience it. I know having gone to the Army for my MS to PO2 period I was lucky to have a quiet existence for a few years.

 

[markppcli]

The way it should be , afterall you wouldn't want the serfs contaminating the ceremony with their presence.

I guarantee the serfs are more than happy to not be on parade lol

 

[Remius]

If people prefer email change of commands then the public service has a great SOP. Email gets sent out with the bio, people either read or delete or both. They don’t really know what the new boss looks like until a town hall on teams or maybe during a random situational thing.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

If people prefer email change of commands then the public service has a great SOP. Email gets sent out with the bio, people either read or delete or both. They don’t really know what the new boss looks like until a town hall on teams or maybe during a random situational thing.

I will bash the square for 6 days straight if it means we don't adopt yet another page from the PS's "How to Dismantle a Military, While Still Collecting a Paycheck" Handbook.

 

[Remius]

I will bash the square for 6 days straight if it means we don't adopt yet another page from the PS's "How to Dismantle a Military, While Still Collecting a Paycheck" Handbook.

We are dismantling the military from within. The PS has nothing to do with that.

 

[FSTO]

Oh god the RUSI ...



Absolutely. Ships crews, I would argue, are probably the busiest entities in the CAF. It's shocking to most the first time they experience it. I know having gone to the Army for my MS to PO2 period I was lucky to have a quiet existence for a few years.

According to my email exchange with the Base (now Formation) Chief in Halifax, the Petty Officer's guard (with a LT in command) took a whole forenoon to practice. They still fubard it, as in making the LT look like an idiot.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

We are dismantling the military from within. The PS has nothing to do with that.

Aiding and abetting is still part of the same crime.

 

[dimsum]

According to my email exchange with the Base (now Formation) Chief in Halifax, the Petty Officer's guard (with a LT in command) took a whole forenoon to practice. They still fubard it, as in making the LT look like an idiot.

You know what this means:

Formal, full-time ceremonial guards like Australia's Federation Guard or Germany's Wachbatallion.

Select them from Basic training, do that for 3 years, then send them on whatever trade training they would have done (or a preferential trade/posting).

 

[Remius]

Aiding and abetting is still part of the same crime.

We’ve civilianised the CAF enough as it is. That was the point I was making about email CofC. And most of that is from the uniformed members wanting that.

I’ve never once heard a civy at DND say “get rid of drill” or “the infantry doesn’t need mortars”. But I’ve heard plenty of uniformed members say and enable that.

 

[Remius]

You know what this means:

Formal, full-time ceremonial guards like Australia's Federation Guard or Germany's Wachbatallion.

Select them from Basic training, do that for 3 years, then send them on whatever trade training they would have done (or a preferential trade/posting).

3rd infantry regiment in DC as well.

Not sure the CAF can afford that though given our current state.

 

[Remius]

Want to have a test ? Make it optional.

You could easily apply that to any task people aren’t keen on doing in any work environment. But your point is still valid. And agree that troops would rather be doing something else.

 

[btrudy]

You could easily apply that to any task people aren’t keen on doing in any work environment. But your point is still valid. And agree that troops would rather be doing something else.

The difference being the degree to which those tasks can be tied to fulfilling the organizations' operational goals.

No one likes doing unpleasant and boring tasks.

But people really hate doing unpleasant and boring useless tasks. And large scale drill focused ceremonial events such as change of command parades don't actually help us fight the enemy.

You know what this means:

Formal, full-time ceremonial guards like Australia's Federation Guard or Germany's Wachbatallion.

Select them from Basic training, do that for 3 years, then send them on whatever trade training they would have done (or a preferential trade/posting).

And the question of the day being, would the benefit of those people being really good at drill help the CAF fulfill its goals more than those people going straight to their occupational training and doing their actual jobs?

What goal are you trying to accomplish here, and how important is that goal compared to our other pressing operational requirements?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

What good do the Snowbirds do for helping us fight the enemy?

Why do we have family days? Families aren’t engaging the enemy.