Changes, needed fixes in Cadets (merged)

[Franko]

True Canadian...do your parents know that you contribute absolute rubbish to this fine forum?

A quote..."If you don‘t want they army, don‘t join ARMY Cadets"

They army?

Pay attention in class and learn how to spell BEFORE you write.

So your a Cdt Mcpl who wants to pipe up on this subject in this forum. Here is something to think about BEFORE you do.

1. Know the subject
2. Have more knowledge than the people you are trying to take on, of which you do not.
3. If you have a point, MAKE it clear, and to the point.
4. If your not sure about the topic, make your point of view known with an open mind for comments by others(and there WILL be comments)

Finally...I‘ve been in the forces longer than you‘ve been alive.

Don‘t mess with somone you don‘t know

As for soccer moms...how‘s yours?

‘Nuff said Mcpl...you‘re DISMISSED!

Regards

:evil:

edited for wrong info

 

[Franko]

So back to the topic at hand it would seem

 

[Harris]

Thanx for the good comments Franko. Unfortunately I have to point out that you are incorrect about the Cap Badge used in True Canadian‘s profile. It is not from an Ottawa Unit. I was a member of the Cameron Highlander‘s of Ottawa and I can assure you that we did not wear the cap badge of the Queens Own Cameron Highlander‘s of Canada capbadge. Otherwise good points.

 

[Franko]

By gosh your right Harris...there all gone. I didn‘t let it finish loading the picture before I closed it.

My bad

Regards

 

[Caz]

Right... good way to shape youth into model citizens... show them that violence is the best way to correct them

We‘ve had the CHAP discussion before. It‘s not a verb. It‘s a program.

Anything that is wrong now that CHAP is here (and it‘s been five years - get over it!), was wrong before.

The difference is now that people know their rights, and have a cemented reporting process.

Anyway...

Dano, thanks for the kind words. Yes, what you pointed out about your Sunday Ex‘s is a problem in many units - a large interruption in the flow of communication between the NCOs and the CO, who approves/disapproves your optional training.

Sometimes it‘s easy to forget we‘re here for the cadets. Don‘t give up on your efforts, Dano - they will serve you well.

 

[chalk1]

So, what can be done then about promotions if we have too many being handed out? Its obvious we cant rely on CIC officers (not all, just those to which this applies...sorry cas) to enforce standards. Correct me if im wrong, but doesnt a cadet have to have his/her NSCE before being promoted to WO? How many of you have seen a chief with gold star? I know i have... At my corps, this is how things go down. Green stars dont get promoted until at least a year and a half in. They do receive other incentives for which they earn, such as the regimental cap brass, but only after passing green star training, and more specifically their drill test. This is sort of a tradition as well. Teamwork is always emphasized throughtout the cadet‘s career, but leadership training starts in red star. On year-end FTX‘s, red stars are given small taskings for which they are evaluated. This is the beginning of their leadership trg. As for promotions, the CO, TrgO and i get together along with my senior NCO‘s who are NSCE qualified to discuss promotions. Promotion above WO is only given to those with NSCE. Do any of you do it different? If so, id really appreciate input...I dont mean to discriminate, but i wont accept it from soccer moms.

 

[MikeM]

You need your NSCE to be promoted above WO (MWO, CWO). I have too seen a CWO with gold star, however, but not lately, I haven‘t seen with a CWO with only their gold star in about 2 years.

As for the way your corps promotes, it is somewhat similar to mine. We have about 150 cadets, broken into 4 different troops. All new recruits that we receive are placed in the recruit troop (We call them troops since we‘re armoured). After 6-8 weeks of fundamental training, they are then placed into one of the other 3 troops and placed into the green star program. A cadet generally receives their green star after a years worth of training (since a year is how long it should take to complete a star level), followed by a promotion to trooper sometime after.

Red stars are grouped together on garrison FTXs (we have 4 affiliated corps), and they all break off into their own sections and complete pratical portions of their red star programme on FTX, such as map and compass and leadership taskings). Back at the LHQ Red stars complete their training as per the training plan, and are usually promoted to corporal upon completion of their red star. However, there are the occasions where we need CPLs before then, and certain troopers may be promoted prior to earning their red star.

Just like red star, all the silver stars from each of our 4 corps group together on FTXs and complete practical portions of their star training. Back at LHQ the same thing applies to silver as red, promotions are usually made after obtaining their silver star.

Gold is the same as silver, most people gold star qualified in my corps are around the rank of SGT/WO. However there are a few MCPLs who havent made the cut for rank, but have obtained their star.

NSCE qualification is required for anyone in my corps to be promoted above WO, no exceptions.

Just a few notes:

On FTX‘s, the star training sections are led by senior NCO‘s with gold/NSCE, with the exception of the gold star section, which is led by someone with their complete NSCE qualification.

Anyone who receives a higher star level isnt necessarily promoted, certain bad cadets may get the star, but they wont receive the rank until they are ready. Promotions also only happen unless there is a vacancy for a position.

We hold promotion boards in our corps usually twice a year, all sergeant majors, troops officers, plus the CO and DCO attend, and discuss each cadet above the rank of corporal for promotion. (Trooper and Corporal are decided by their troop officers discretion).

Thats all I can think of for now, anymore questions, don‘t hesitate to ask.

 

[chalk1]

Cool. What would you say(all) to adding some form of leadership tasking to NSCE? Im just assuming that since it is a test for seniors, this should be included.

 

[Franko]

Good points Caz,MikeM and McBear

Caz...Violence?

I denounced it earlier in this thread.

Just trying to get the point of knowing the topic PRIOR to saying something across to the lad.

My appologies for any misunderstandings

Regards

 

[Franko]

Any more ideas out there? I‘m sure there is so keep ‘em coming

Regards

 

[MikeM]

It would be pretty good if they threw in a tasking evaluation for NSCE, but that would make it tough to get phase 2 of NSCE done in a weekend.

There are a lot of candidates, and to have everyone complete a tasking using SMESC would take quite some time.

 

[chalk1]

How many candidates did you have on phase two? We had about 49(26 after the phase was done...). We had time for ours, though. Why not move phase two to march break? besides the admin problems for ACO‘s and higher, doesnt this seem more practical Mike?( or anyone else...)It would give plenty of time for taskings and would ensure quality among sr‘s....waddya think?

 

[Franko]

McBear you‘re thinking outside the box...get back in before you make sense and start scareing everyone

Regards

 

[MikeM]

Not everyone is readily available on March Break, due to vacations and such, so that causes a conflict.

In COA in Central Region last year we had over 100 cadets at Phase 2. So doing taskings would be a nightmare. I feel that the current testing done now is more than acceptable, however I would like to see them bring back the Map & Compass theory test.

 

[Franko]

MikeM...They got rid of the Map and Compass portion of the testing? Go figure. It‘s the only portion that actually challenged the cadets. Now you can‘t even call it testing.

The army cadets are losing the one thing that they do better than any other cadet element...NAVIGATION on land.

What‘s next...drill?

Regards

 

[MikeM]

They didn‘t remove map and compass entirely. What they did was remove the Map and Compass Theory test, which was a large written portion of the NSCE. It was originally apart of "Phase 1" of NSCE, along with general knowledge material.

NSCE is currently in 2 Phases, Phase 1 is the General Knowledge exam, with 100 multiple choice questions pertaining to anything in the cadet handbooks. Along with that is the fitness test.

Phase 2 is comprised of practical map and compass testing, a candidate must teach 2 classes, (one drill, and one inclass), aswell as a timed test on knots and lashings.

The practical map & compass is fairly thorough, however it is nothing like the map and compass theory exam, where the cadets were really put to the test. During the new map & compass testing, a cadet must orient a map by inspection and by compass, measure distance along a route twice, shoot a bearing and back bearing, calculate declination, and measuring a bearing.

Map & Compass is a huge part of the NSCE still, however there is no longer any theory questions that must be done on paper, aside from approximatly 10 on the GKE.

We arent losing M&C, the problem is we are losing fieldcraft (its no longer in the handbooks), and that is what set us apart from the rest with M&C.

 

[Jason Jarvis]

Originally posted by MikeM:
[qb] We arent losing M&C, the problem is we are losing fieldcraft (its no longer in the handbooks), and that is what set us apart from the rest with M&C. [/qb]

Stupid question alert: what exactly do you mean by fieldcraft, MikeM? Fieldcraft to me is building fires, shelters, setting traps and snares, ground-to-air signals, terrain navigation, hunting and food preparation . . . and map & compass.

My training was in aircrew survival, hence the last place emphasis on map & compass. Am I on the right track? I just want to make sure we‘re talking about the same kinds of things.

 

[MikeM]

Most of that we are losing. By fieldcraft I mean field formations, and general fieldcraft movement.

Ground to air, navigation, hunting, building shelters falls under bushcraft, which is bush survival, fieldcraft is field tactics and things like that. We are losing most of the stuff you mentioned, it is in the books, but barely taught, its on the NSCE test though.

 

[chalk1]

Franko, first you must realise, there is no box. MikeM, dont forget the cam & concealement, and signals. Thats something i failed to mention earlier, another prerequisite for green stars to pass their trg with my corps is to be able to start a fire with no matches.

 

[Franko]

Everything that you had mentioned MikeM was needed to get a green star at one time(when I joined) Now it seems that the NSCE is getting easier and easier. I‘ve helped out on the testing in years past in NB, this is a drastic change in such a short amount of time. I know of at least 5 cadets who went to NSCE that shouldn‘t have passed and wouldn‘t a few years ago. This is going to have a detremental effect on the future standard of corps nation wide.

As for the box McBear..when you put on a uniform you are already in the box

Regards