CHEMOX vs Drager SCBA

[sailoraye123]

Lol.. have you ever cut open one of the lungs of a chemox unit, one was displayed for us and the amount of mold was absolutely disturbing... if mold is a huge issue then why isn't this being dealt with? Ppl wouldn't deal with black mold in a pmq or barracks so why is pmed obviously turning a blind eye to this nasty problem?? Sounds like a payout is coming...

 

[jollyjacktar]

Chemox are history.  Have been for most of the fleet for several years now.  And l signed the death warrant the other week for the final 100 or so that were still in the system.  Felt good to decree they be smashed to bits and thrown out.  Some days my present job is satisfying.

 

[dimsum]

Chemox are history.  Have been for most of the fleet for several years now.  And l signed the death warrant the other week for the final 100 or so that were still in the system.  Felt good to decree they be smashed to bits and thrown out.  Some days my present job is satisfying.

You sir, are doing the god (or insert applicable deity)'s work.

 

[jollyjacktar]

You sir, are doing the god (or insert applicable deity)'s work.

:bowing:

 

[NavyShooter]

Thank-you.

As someone who is part of the reason that the 'quick start' candle system was removed from use, and who has the chlorine gas exposure recorded in my medical file as a result, I thank you.

 

[FSTO]

Glad to see those demon spawn sent to their just rewards in the darkest pots of hell.

Just once I would love to us getting something modern long before the current equipment is decades out of date.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

What are you using in it's place?

 

[jollyjacktar]

Drager SCBA is what replaced the Chemox.  Would not be my personal choice of SCBA system, but it is heads and tails above the Chemox.  I am sure that in the day, Chemox was revolutionary and of course was better than nothing at all. 

 

[NavyShooter]

I found a photo in a book I have about the underground war in WWI.

It was of a mine rescue team from one of the Tunneling companies.

They were using a Mine Safety Apparatus (MSA) chemical chest breather back, with very little difference from the Chemox...all it was missing was the full face respirator.  Instead it had a nose clip/mouth bit.

We were using something that was, quite resoundingly reliable and proven, but is now quite truly a century old technology.

I'm VERY glad its gone.

NS

 

[Navy_Pete]

I found a photo in a book I have about the underground war in WWI.

It was of a mine rescue team from one of the Tunneling companies.

They were using a Mine Safety Apparatus (MSA) chemical chest breather back, with very little difference from the Chemox...all it was missing was the full face respirator.  Instead it had a nose clip/mouth bit.

We were using something that was, quite resoundingly reliable and proven, but is now quite truly a century old technology.

I'm VERY glad its gone.

NS

Some of the mine escape ones had a cage over the lungs so they wouldn't be collapsed when you were crawling around. Of course, that was removed for the navy, and generations of us had to experience the momentary terror of collapsing your lungs and having no air.  Don't miss those for a second though, Draegers are absolute heaven in comparison, even if we didn't necessarily get the best SCBAs (not even the best Draeger).

 

[Halifax Tar]

Some of the mine escape ones had a cage over the lungs so they wouldn't be collapsed when you were crawling around. Of course, that was removed for the navy, and generations of us had to experience the momentary terror of collapsing your lungs and having no air.  Don't miss those for a second though, Draegers are absolute heaven in comparison, even if we didn't necessarily get the best SCBAs (not even the best Draeger).

No intent on a derail here.  Can someone give me a brief synopsis of what separates the Dragger from the competing models ?

Honest question.  90% of my Navy life is in CHEMOX and I probably have a combined 4hrs of dragger time.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

My whole career was in the Chemox era. Never seen a Draeger type SCBA except for the "real" firefighters of the air groups.

Now, we were always taught that the excuse ... I mean the reason we didn't use air tanks was that in action, you could go through your tank of air very fast when expanding a lot of energy and then had to recharge the air bottles, whereby the Chemox guaranteed one hour no matter what and then replacing the cartridge was fast and easy.

Now that was probably complete bull meant to make us feel good about the equipment we were given (and it didn't work). However, in my experience, fire at sea are either nicked by rapid response before they get big, or start already big with a bang, and then take a lengthy firefighting effort to extinguish.

So my question, simply after all this intro, is: Did the Navy get the "twin-backpack" style 4 hours Draeger SCBA or did they get the regular one hour bottle type?

 

[jollyjacktar]

No intent on a derail here.  Can someone give me a brief synopsis of what separates the Dragger from the competing models ?

Honest question.  90% of my Navy life is in CHEMOX and I probably have a combined 4hrs of dragger time.

Basically how the bottle is attached to the backpack, to the regulator, how the facemask is attached to the lung demand valve.  Each different company does it a little different.  The model of SCBA we purchased was a line that was being phased out for a newer model.  We were given a sweetheart deal to some degree and service support from the company was the deciding factors.  It is more clunky to do a bottle change out and the pack really needs to come off the back to make it happen.  The lung demand valve can be a pain in the ass to attach to the face piece.  To sum up, there are newer, better, more user friendly systems out there, which I suppose is a personal preference/opinion and may colour one's opinion.  Regardless of how easy or not to use, the Drager is a god send  when set aside the Chemox and I am thankful for that.  If I was to push it, as I said, I would prefer a different make/model on my back and face.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

My whole career was in the Chemox era. Never seen a Draeger type SCBA except for the "real" firefighters of the air groups.

Now, we were always taught that the excuse ... I mean the reason we didn't use air tanks was that in action, you could go through your tank of air very fast when expanding a lot of energy and then had to recharge the air bottles, whereby the Chemox guaranteed one hour no matter what and then replacing the cartridge was fast and easy.

Now that was probably complete bull meant to make us feel good about the equipment we were given (and it didn't work). However, in my experience, fire at sea are either nicked by rapid response before they get big, or start already big with a bang, and then take a lengthy firefighting effort to extinguish.

So my question, simply after all this intro, is: Did the Navy get the "twin-backpack" style 4 hours Draeger SCBA or did they get the regular one hour bottle type?

During the PRO fire, they came within 4 bottles of running out completely, before they began to slowly make up bottles by the portable, gasoline powered compressors (there was no emergency power available to run the fitted filling stations. Somewhat of an oversight...). I am told that some people ran through bottles in 10 minutes; others made their bottles last almost an unbelievably long time. All told, the SCBA were a godsend in that situation, I think. Chemox would have made things that much harder, IMHO.

 

[jollyjacktar]

My whole career was in the Chemox era. Never seen a Draeger type SCBA except for the "real" firefighters of the air groups.

Now, we were always taught that the excuse ... I mean the reason we didn't use air tanks was that in action, you could go through your tank of air very fast when expanding a lot of energy and then had to recharge the air bottles, whereby the Chemox guaranteed one hour no matter what and then replacing the cartridge was fast and easy.

Now that was probably complete bull meant to make us feel good about the equipment we were given (and it didn't work). However, in my experience, fire at sea are either nicked by rapid response before they get big, or start already big with a bang, and then take a lengthy firefighting effort to extinguish.

So my question, simply after all this intro, is: Did the Navy get the "twin-backpack" style 4 hours Draeger SCBA or did they get the regular one hour bottle type?

Regular one hour bottle.  Which doesn't last an hour.  If you're an air pig, you're going to suck back the contents like a bastard, as SKT said they did.  If you're black like PRO, the Bauer compressors will be your only salvation.  I'll still take an SCBA over Chemox any day of the week.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Basically how the bottle is attached to the backpack, to the regulator, how the facemask is attached to the lung demand valve.  Each different company does it a little different.  The model of SCBA we purchased was a line that was being phased out for a newer model.  We were given a sweetheart deal to some degree and service support from the company was the deciding factors.  It is more clunky to do a bottle change out and the pack really needs to come off the back to make it happen.  The lung demand valve can be a pain in the *** to attach to the face piece.  To sum up, there are newer, better, more user friendly systems out there, which I suppose is a personal preference/opinion and may colour one's opinion.  Regardless of how easy or not to use, the Drager is a god send  when set aside the Chemox and I am thankful for that.  If I was to push it, as I said, I would prefer a different make/model on my back and face.

Thanks for the info JJT

 

[Colin Parkinson]

We had the Scott and the Scott 2a in the CCG, not sure if they are still using them.

 

[Scott]

The pack needs to come off to change a cylinder? What edition (year) are the sets? That sounds crazy, to me.

Drager enjoyed a swing in popularity in the 90s on the east coast of Canada, with several larger orders of their kit (not sure the subname) But since then, I believe they've been in decline.

For SCBA, the industry today is dominated by Scott (40%), MSA (40%), and then everyone else: Cairns, ISI, Drager, Sperian, among others. Scott used to boss about 80% of the industry, but MSA started coming on as Scott stuck with the same design, just new names.

Most SCBA sets today will include the air source (carbon fibre bottles being the best), a first stage regulator, second stage regulator (commonly face mounted),  face piece and a frame to hold all the guts. What differs is the makeup of the regulating/pressure reducing systems, the extra bits of added shit - like PASS, HUD, RIT connectors, etc, and the weights of everything except the cylinders (cylinders are usually a common manufacturer like Luxfer with a company specific outer wrap)

My personal experience started with Scott when it was still 2A - the old elephant trunk with a demand/positive switch.

I then moved on to 2.2/3.0/4.5 and fell in love with the simplicity.

Survivair, or Surpriseair, came next with the nasty habit of the FM regulator flying off when in the middle of a fire.

I moved to a EN version after this which was Sabre, and I have hardly seen a more simplistic setup for use/wear, and for testing, repair and recertification.

Lastly, I moved to MSA and Sperian/Honeywell (a Frankenpack of varying designs, one of which is good old Surpriseair)

I am absolutely in love with the MSA BA. I love(d) Scott, but MSA made things simpler, lighter, and more user friendly.

Pretty sure the old 2A is allowed to be used, just so long as it does not have the pressure/demand switch. But why would you? It shows a complete lack of caring for workers by using those antiquated pieces. They belong in museums.

 

[jollyjacktar]

We acquired the Drager in 2008 or so.  The bottle having to come off is a real pain in the ass and I hate fighting with the connection to the regulator as it has to be "just so" to thread on properly.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

As I recall Drager was the No1 set for the mining industry


Meanwhile back at the RCN

http://www.london-fire.gov.uk/Images/10536185.jpg