China vs. Vietnam: territorial disputes, etc

[CougarKing]

The South China Sea again...

Associated Press

quote:
Vietnam tries to stop China oil rig deployment

By CHRIS BRUMMITT | Associated Press

HANOI, Vietnam (AP) — Chinese ships are ramming and spraying water cannons at Vietnamese vessels trying to stop Beijing from setting up an oil rig in the South China Sea, according to Vietnamese officials and video evidence Wednesday, a dangerous escalation of tensions in disputed waters considered a global flashpoint.

With neither side showing any sign of stepping down, the standoff raises the possibility that more serious clashes could break out. Vietnam said several boats have been damaged and six people on the vessels have been injured by broken glass.

Vietnam, which has no hope of standing up to China militarily, said it wants a peaceful solution and — unlike China — hadn't sent any navy ships to areas close to the $1 billion deep sea rig. But a top official warned that "all restraint had a limit."

"Our maritime police and fishing protection forces have practiced extreme restraint, we will continue to hold on there," Ngo Ngoc Thu, vice commander of Vietnam's coast guard, told a specially arranged news conference in Hanoi. "But if (the Chinese ships) continue to ram into us, we will respond with similar self-defense."

(...EDITED)

 

[tomahawk6]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27458866

China is sending five ships to evacuate Chinese nationals from Vietnam following a wave of anti-Chinese riots.

The Chinese government has already evacuated more than 3,000 people, Chinese state-run media report.

The first ship set sail on Sunday, while 16 critically injured Chinese nationals left Vietnam on a chartered flight, Xinhua news agency said.

Two Chinese workers have been killed and dozens more injured in unrest over a Chinese oil rig in disputed waters.

On Saturday the Vietnamese government called for an end to the protests.

 

[Edward Campbell]

China and Vietnam have a longer history of conflict (much most of which has gone poorly for China) than most countries have history, period.

 

[CougarKing]

The PLA being amassed on the border to send a signal to Hanoi?

The Communist regime in Vietnam would not want a repeat of the punitive 1979 Chinese invasion of Vietnam.

Chinese Military Said to Be Massing Near the Vietnam Border

Troops, tanks, trucks, artillery, and armored personnel carriers of China’s military were seen heading to the Vietnamese border on May 16 and 17, according to photographs taken by by residents near the border.

Chinese netizens have been posting photographs of the large movement of the People’s Liberation Army, many of them showing Chinese troops in full combat gear heading to the local train station in Chongzuo, along with military vehicles.

One netizen said the Chinese military was taking the train from the Chongzuo station to Pingxiang City, which shares a 60-mile border with Vietnam. The netizen said that the Huu Nghi Border Gate to Vietnam is also now closed.

One of the photos, taken from inside a passenger train, shows the Chinese military preparing artillery for transport on a train track. Others show Chinese troops and military vehicles traveling along dirt roads.

(...EDITED)

Epoch Times

 

[CougarKing]

Interaksyon(Philippines news site)

With 130 ships, planes guarding oil rig, China imperils maritime peace – Vietnam PM
By: Dexter San Pedro, InterAksyon.com
May 22, 2014 6:25 PM

MANILA - Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung denounced China's aggressive actions over maritime disputes in the region during the opening of the World Economic Forum-East Asia summit on Thursday.

"May I draw your attention to the serious situation going on in the East Sea. Since May 1, 2014, China has deployed more than 130 ships including military vessels and planes to guard the placement of its oil drilling rig in the location which is 40 nautical miles deep into the Vietnamese exclusive economic zone prescribed by the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Seas," Nguyen said.

"This gravely violates the international law and the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea or the DOC to which China is also a signatory," he added, in a speech at the summit.

(...EDITED)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Oh boy maybe the West can get behind a proxy war with China with Vietnam doing the heavy lifting  8)

 

[CougarKing]

More food for thought:

Why ASEAN is so important to the China-Vietnam tensions


Background:  ASEAN

The Association of Southeast Asian Nations (or ASEAN) is a political and economic organization of ten countries located in Southeast Asia. If ASEAN were a single entity, it would rank as the eighth largest economy in the world. The ASEAN countries together have a population of approximately 600 million people, which is 8.8% of the world’s population.

   


China and Vietnam

According to the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation in Southeast Asia adopted by ASEAN’s member states, members have agreed to show mutual respect for the independence, sovereignty, equality, territorial integrity, and national identity of all member nations, along with:

• -The peaceful settlement of differences or disputes
  
• -The renunciation of the threat or use of force

China is testing ASEAN’s solidarity with Vietnam on these pledges amid violent protests that have erupted in Vietnam against the deployment of a Chinese oil rig to disputed waters. It’s also evaluating how much U.S. support Vietnam can rely upon under these circumstances.

The test is to evaluate the Obama Administration’s Asian policy, which seeks to balance the desire for good relations with China with the need to support smaller countries in the region. However, China views the United States’ so-called rebalance of Asia as a potential threat, believing its focus in the region encourages China’s smaller neighbors to stand up to the country.

Moreover, in a call on May 14, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi briefed his counterpart, Marty Natalegawa, from Indonesia on the situation with Vietnam and said he hoped the ten-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations could “clearly understand the basic facts of the incident.” China’s request to Indonesia to mediate in the conflict seems to be an attempt to show how divided ASEAN is. However, Indonesia has taken no side on the sovereignty disputes in the South China Sea.


Renewed tension

The economic and political relations between China and Vietnam, also referred to as “Sino-Vietnamese relations,” have never been at ease since the two countries fought a month-long war in 1979. Strains in their relations deepened in 2009, when China presented a claim to 80% of the South China Sea to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.

     


The importance of having a claim over the area

Having a claim over the South China Sea is particularly important to both sides, since it involves claims on the possession of two island groups, the Paracels and Spratlys, and more importantly the right to explore and exploit the natural resources in and below the waters surrounding the islands. Although proven reserves haven’t yet been forthcoming, the most optimistic estimates from China suggest that the potential oil resources of the Spratly and Paracel Islands could be as high as 213 billion barrels of oil and the area is also rich in natural gas.

In a broader context, the Asian waterways are packed with trade routes representing the world economy’s pulse. According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, every year, nearly one-third of the crude oil supply globally and more than half of liquefied natural gas shipments pass through the South China Sea. Half of the world’s merchant fleet (by tonnage) travels through the South China Sea each year.

Moreover, large multinational corporations with huge potential for developing the area along with providing abundant employment opportunities have established their presence in the area. For example, Nike Inc. (NKE), one of the biggest American multinationals in footwear, has contracts with 170 factories in six countries in Southeast Asia. The company employs close to 530,000 workers in that area.

The standoff with Vietnam has also exploded into riots against foreign-owned businesses—including many with no ties to China whatsoever—that threaten to reverse years of progress in attracting foreign manufacturing to Vietnam. However, firms like Wal-Mart (WMT) will see no big impact from the Vietnam protests since they source from many countries.

Rising tensions in the area already reflect in the volatility in the performance of exchange-traded funds (or ETFs) like the iShares FTSE/Xinhua China 25 Index Fund (FXI), which is the largest ETF in the Asian-stock category and which tracks an index of the 25 largest and most liquid Chinese companies, as well as the Market Vectors Vietnam ETF (VNM), which has exposure to publicly traded companies in Vietnam that generate at least 50% of their revenues from Vietnam. Emerging market ETFs like the iShares MSCI Emerging Markets ETF (EEM) are also popular in the emerging markets category.

The tensions over the South China Sea are causing more damage than meets the eye, especially for the Vietnamese economy. The next part of this series shares an overview of what’s behind the recent tensions and agitations between the two strongly linked countries.


Market Realist.com

 

[CougarKing]

Filipinos and Vietnamese thumbing their nose at China:

From Agence-France-Presse via Interaksyon (Philippines news site)

SPORTS DIPLOMACY | Vietnam, Philippines navies play first Spratlys games of volleyball, football
By: Agence France-Presse
June 8, 2014 4:04 PM

MANILA - Filipino and Vietnamese troops played volleyball and football in a contested South China Sea archipelago Sunday, a landmark act of sports diplomacy that both sides said could ease territorial tensions.

The games were hosted by Vietnam on one of the islands it controls in the Spratlys archipelago, a powder keg area of competing regional claims, Philippine Navy spokesman Lieutenant Commander Gregory Fabic said.

"It is an activity we would like to (set as an) example to other (claimants)," in the area, Fabic said.

"These kind of activities will ease up tensions," he said.

(...EDITED)

 

[CougarKing]

One result of top US general Gen. Dempsey's recent visit to Vietnam:

From Agence-France-Presse via Channel News Asia (Singapore)

Top US general wants to ease arms ban to Vietnam
By: Agence France-Presse
August 17, 2014 6:15 AM

HO CHI MINH CITY: The United States could help build Vietnam's naval capacity if a ban on selling lethal weapons to the nation is lifted, the most senior US military officer to visit Vietnam for decades said Saturday (Aug 16).

General Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that "in the near term" there would be a discussion in the United States about whether to lift the ban introduced over human rights concerns. Dempsey was speaking to reporters in southern Ho Chi Minh City during a four-day visit to the country during which he has met top military officials to discuss strengthening military cooperation.

"The maritime domain is the place of our greatest common interest right now... and my recommendation if the ban is lifted will be that we start with that," he said. Trade has flourished between former wartime foes America and Vietnam since the countries normalised ties in 1995. But military cooperation is limited due to a US ban on sales of lethal weapons.

Hanoi is currently locked in a bitter maritime dispute with Beijing over disputed waters and island chains in the South China Sea. In May, Beijing moved a deep sea oil rig into waters that Hanoi claims, setting off violent anti-China riots in Vietnam and triggering a high-seas standoff around the rig.

(...EDITED)

 

[tomahawk6]

Just let the Russians arm the Vietnamese.Anti-ship missiles would be the big equalizer. :camo:

 

[Robert0288]

Already being done.

Vietnam’s Russian Restocking
Apr 24, 2014
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/vietnam-reportedly-set-to-buy-russian-kilo-class-subs-05396/

 

[CougarKing]

Speaking of Russian arms restocking for Vietnam, they're getting their 3rd Kilo class this November:

Reuters via Yahoo News

Vietnam building deterrent against China in disputed seas with submarines

By Greg Torode
HONG KONG (Reuters) - Vietnam will soon have a credible naval deterrent to China in the South China Sea in the form of Kilo-class submarines from Russia, which experts say could make Beijing think twice before pushing its much smaller neighbor around in disputed waters.

A master of guerrilla warfare, Vietnam has taken possession of two of the state-of-the-art submarines and will get a third in November under a $2.6 billion deal agreed with Moscow in 2009. A final three are scheduled to be delivered within two years.

While communist parties rule both Vietnam and China and annual trade has risen to $50 billion, Hanoi has long been wary of China, especially over Beijing's claims to most of the potentially energy-rich South China Sea. Beijing's placement of an oil rig in waters claimed by Vietnam earlier this year infuriated Hanoi but the coastguard vessels it dispatched to the platform were always chased off by larger Chinese boats.

The Vietnamese are likely to run so-called area denial operations off its coast and around its military bases in the Spratly island chain of the South China Sea once the submarines are fully operational, experts said.

(...EDITED)

 

[Hisoyaki]

A proxy war between China and Vietnam would come to a disappointing end.

China doesn't need to "win" against Vietnam. China's economy can afford to post troops at the border indefinetly. Vietnam will take a much harder hit if it does the same. 

Vietnam also has a spotty history with its neighbors. Vietnamese troops have crossed as far as Thailand in the 80s.

It would be a shame if the US supports a regime that has a long history of human rights violations and imperialistic designs-- a regime that is bound to be a losing horse to boot.

 

[CougarKing]

So ex-US warships can now be sold to Vietnam allowing it to better defend itself against China?

Reuters

U.S. eases arms embargo against Vietnam for maritime security
Thu Oct 2, 2014 7:02pm EDT


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States on Thursday partially lifted a long-time ban on lethal weapon sales to Vietnam to help it improve maritime security, a historic move that comes nearly 40 years after the end of the Vietnam War.

"The State Department has taken steps to allow for the future transfer of maritime security-related defense articles to Vietnam," State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told a briefing.

State Department officials told a separate briefing that the decision would ease a ban on sales of lethal weapons to Vietnam that has been in place since the end of the Vietnam War, although only for maritime security purposes at this point.

They said requests from Vietnam for any specific weapons would be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

The focus would be on helping Vietnam patrol and defend itself in the South China Sea, amid growing naval challenges from China, the officials said, but future weapons sales could include airborne systems as well as ships.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[CougarKing]

Land-attack SSMs on Vietnam's 6 Kilo class SSKs?

Diplomat

Vietnam Buys Deadly New Missiles Capable of Hitting China
Hanoi is the first Southeast Asian nation arming its submarines with land attack cruise missiles.[/b]

Vietnam is in the process of acquiring 50 anti-ship and land attack 3M-14E Klub supersonic cruise missiles for its burgeoning fleet of SSK Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines, Der Spiegel Online reports.

According to the article, the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) recently updated data on its website, based on information obtained from the United Nations’ register of conventional arms, indicating that Russia has already delivered 28 missiles over the last two years to Hanoi, although the precise number remains unknown.

The Klub is a Russian-made conventional supersonic cruise missile, “designed to destroy targets protected by sophisticated active air defenses and countermeasures,” deagel.com explains. It is an export variant of Russia’s “carrier killer” 3M-54 (NATO designation: SS-N-27A “Sizzler”) and capable of long-range precision strikes.

While it is unknown whether the anti-ship variant of the weapon sold to Vietnam is the 3M-54E Klub-S (range 220km) or 3M-54E1 (range 300km) – both of which can be launched from submarines –  the land-attack variant is almost certainly the 3M-14E (range 300km), capable of carrying a 450kg warhead.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[CougarKing]

The Chinese airstrip is operational:

Diplomat

Vietnam Protests as China Lands Civilian Aircraft on Newly Constructed Spratly Airstrip

The Vietnamese foreign ministry described the move as a “serious infringement” of its sovereignty.

By Ankit Panda
January 03, 2016


The status of China’s artificial islands in the disputed Spratly archipelago in the South China Sea hit a new milestone on Saturday. China landed a civilian aircraft on Fiery Cross Reef, drawing a sharp reaction from the Vietnamese government. Le Hai Binh, a spokesperson for the Vietnamese foreign ministry, said that a Chinese aircraft had landed on the 3000 meter airstrip on Fiery Cross Reef. He added that the strip had been  “built illegally on Fiery Cross Reef, which is part of Vietnam’s Spratlys.” Vietnam, along with China, Taiwan, and Malaysia, claims Fiery Cross Reef, which has seen extensive land reclamation and construction work since last year. China has occupied the reef since 1988.

Binh continued that the move represented “a serious infringement of the sovereignty of Vietnam on the Spratly archipelago, contrary to the common perception of high-ranking leaders of the two countries and [to] an agreement on the basic principles for directly solving maritime issues between Vietnam and China.” He additionally noted that the Vietnamese government had filed a formal protest with the Chinese embassy, requesting that China refrain from staging another landing on the disputed island.

Hua Chunying, a spokesperson for the Chinese foreign ministry, clarified the nature of the landing. According to Hua, “the Chinese government conducted a test flight to the airport with a civil aircraft in order to test whether or not the facilities on it meet the standards for civil aviation.” She added that the “relevant activity falls completely within China’s sovereignty.”

(...SNIPPED)

 

[CougarKing]

From last week: Hanoi showing Beijing they will not be trifled with.

Vietnam seizes Chinese vessel for intruding its waters

Associated Press

Apr. 3, 2016

The Thanh Nien newspaper said that the vessel has been towed to the northern port city of Hai Phong, and that the ship, its captain and two sailors, all Chinese, are under the supervision of Vietnamese authorities.

The vessel, disguised as a fishing boat, was carrying 100,000 liters of diesel oil and was intercepted by Vietnamese coast guard near Bach Long Vi island in the Gulf of Tonkin on Thursday, it said.

The captain told authorities the fuel was to be sold to Chinese fishing boats operating in the area, it said. ...

The newspaper said that in the last two weeks of March the coast guard had chased 110 Chinese fishing boats out of Vietnamese waters.

Vietnam's coast guard often warns and chases Chinese fishing boats out of its waters but rarely seizes them.

 

[CougarKing]

Major update:

Defense News

Obama Announces Full Lifting of Vietnam Arms Embargo
Aaron Mehta, Defense News 9:42 a.m. EDT May 23, 2016

This story, which was originally published Wednesday, has been updated with confirmation that President Barack Obama has lifted the arms embargo.

WASHINGTON — The United States has fully lifted its ban on weapons sales to Vietnam, President Barack Obama announced on Monday during a visit to Hanoi, ending a decades-old embargo on the one-time enemy.

Obama was keen to separate the decision to allow arms sales to the communist nation from shared concerns over China's military build-up in the disputed South China Sea.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[CougarKing]

Major update:

Defense News

Vietnam May Request F-16s, P-3 Orions From US
Wendell Minnick, Defense News 11:20 a.m. EDT May 25, 2016


TAIPEI, Taiwan — With the lifting of the US arms embargo to Vietnam, a US defense industry source indicates Hanoi is seeking to improve its air defense and maritime security capabilities with the procurement of F-16 fighter aircraft from the US Pentagon’s excess defense articles (EDA) program and refurbished P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft, armed with torpedoes.

The source also said Vietnam could seek US-made UAVs for maritime intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) missions.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[tomahawk6]

They might request them,but I would rather pay the Russians for modern fighters,helicopter gunships,AD artillery and maritime surveillance aircraft and have the Vietnamese operate equipment that would give them an edge but not give away our technology.