Chinese Military,Political and Social Superthread

[Edward Campbell]

Mr. McAdam has a specific axe to grind. He has a big grievance with DFAIT, and Official Ottawa in general, over serious flaws in the Canadian immigration programme.

That being noted I have a few comments on his points:

Myth 1: Trade with China benefits Canada

"How many times have you heard that China is now Canada's second largest trading partner?" asks Mr. McAdam. "This means that China is our second-largest source of imports after the U.S. -- not that our trade with China has improved."

He notes that China now exports more than four times as much to Canada ($38.3 billion) as we are selling to them ($9.3 billion). Statistics Canada says the Canadian trade deficit with China expanded from $3.9 billion in 1997 to $26.8 billion in 2006.

"China is really using Canada almost as a colony," says Mr. McAdam, "getting raw materials from us and selling them back to us in finished products ranging from furniture and clothes to plastics and high-tech equipment.

"Canada doesn't need China," he says. "China needs Canada."

Quite right. But that doesn’t mean that it is good business to ignore or worse, annoy customers.

More important: China’s current dominance of the cheap consumer goods markets  is reminiscent of Japan in the 1950s – when “Made in Japan” was synonymous with cheap, poor quality goods. Influenced by Americans like W Edwards Deming and their own ambitions the Japanese moved quickly to shed low skill metal bending jobs, to Korea, and to focus on high quality, high value production with the concomitant jobs. China will, I think go through a similar process. The Chinese, as Thomas Friedman has said, do not want to engage us in a ‘race to the bottom;’ they do not want to be producers of ‘toxic toys’ – the profit margins are too slim; they are seeking a place at the top. Chinese wages are rising and some low value, low quality production is already shifting to e.g. Indonesia – and there will be always lower wage rates available elsewhere.

Myth 2: China has 1.3 billion customers

"It's a mirage -- there are one billion peasants who cannot afford a bottle of Coke," Mr. McAdam says. The real customer base is 300,000 -- people with privileged government positions.

He says that the West's widespread trade deficits with China spring from low wages and prisoner slave labour, counterfeit products and pirated intellectual property.

While a few Canadian companies make money in China, he says, the fantasy of broad-based beneficial trade has been "created by people to justify" a close relationship with China.

Both the math (maybe the reporter’s) and the conclusion are faulty. At a moment in time there were just 300,000,000 Chinese in the emerging middle class – most in the lower middle class. But the Chinese economy is growing rapidly and, with it, so is disposable income for more and more Chinese. Soon the Chinese middle class will be larger than that in the USA; then it will be larger than that of the EU, then ...

China is a big, important market and it is getting bigger and more important. We need to treat it as such. That doesn’t make China our friend, but it is not our enemy, either; it is an increasingly important and valued trade partner.

Myth 3: China is becoming a democratic nation

"Trade has not brought democracy to China and never will," says Mr. McAdam. Nor will it bring China free speech, free media, free worship or free demonstrations -- graphically confirmed in Tiananmen Square in 1989 and this year in Tibet.

He quotes Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao, who said last year that "democracy is probably still 100 years away."

True enough – as far as it goes. But, maybe, our Western style liberal democracy isn’t what China or the Chinese need right now. Maybe respect (from top to bottom) for the ‘rule of law’ and the idea of ‘equality at law’ are essential preconditions to better national governance. It is, I believe, well understood by the Chinese leadership that they are essential preconditions for a sound business/investment environment – which is essential to continued growth, which is, in turn, essential for social stability and, therefore, is essential for the survival of the Red Dynasty.

Myth 4: China has improved human rights

With Olympic visitors gone home, Mr. McAdam predicts, China "will crack down" on its citizens.

Mr. McAdam laments that "nobody is really taking China to task over its human rights violations." Even in Canada, Chinese émigrés and students are "intimidated by the Chinese government, which leads them to think that they, or their families back home, will be harmed -- unless they spy." This includes some targeted students, scientists, businessmen, foreign delegations and public servants, he says.

Most of the Chinese media in Canada are controlled by the Communist government or its proxies, says Mr. McAdam. "The information that the Chinese population is getting here in Canada -- they might as well live in Communist China."

I have two points:

1. It is nonsense to say that ‘human rights’ have not improved in China. They have not improved as much as most people might wish but they are better than 10 years ago, much better than 20 years ago and so on; and

2. China is a very conservative society and the position of liberal, individualistic ‘human rights’ is not as high amongst real, true conservatives as it is amongst we liberals.

McAdam is being hyperbolic, as I am wont to be, now and again  ;D, in his comments about how Chinese Canadians and Chinese in Canada get their information.

Myth 5: China is benign

"China is engaged in a stunning espionage effort, buying ... its way towards high-tech superpower status as fast as it can," says Mr. McAdam. "It wants to have the world's best military."

Ten months ago, the U.S. government concluded, in a 350-page analysis titled 2007 Report to Congress of the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission: "China is supplementing the technologies that its defense industry obtains through commercial transfers and direct production partnerships with an aggressive and large-scale industrial campaign. Chinese espionage activities in the United States are so extensive that they comprise the single greatest risk to the security of American technologies."

(The Sidewinder Report, incidentally, had reached a similar conclusion in Canada: "China remains one of the greatest ongoing threats to Canada's national security and Canadian industry. There is no longer any doubt that the ChIS [Chinese Intelligence Services] have been able to gain influence in important sectors of the Canadian economy, including education, real estate, high technology, security and many others. In turn, it [influence] gave them access to economic, political and some military intelligence of Canada.")

In 2005, during question period, Stephen Harper, then-Conservative leader of the Opposition, criticized the Liberal government for not taking the Chinese espionage threat seriously.

"Today the former head of the CSIS Asia desk (Michel Juneau-Katsuya) confirmed reports from defectors that close to 1,000 Chinese government agent spies have infiltrated Canada,' said Mr. Harper. He quoted Mr. Juneau-Katsuya's estimate that Chinese spies cost Canada $1 billion each month through industrial espionage. Mr. McAdam's conclusion today: "China has dangled billions of dollars of trade, seducing many countries into ignoring human rights issues in China and allowing China to acquire their industrial and military secrets.

True, but China is not the only espionage threat to Canada and it may not even be the most dangerous. The fact that someone spies on us does not make the our enemy; if it did we would have damned few friends.

 

[CougarKing]

From Strategy page:

First Chinese Carrier Aviators
September 19, 2008: China announced that its first class of carrier aviators had begun training at the Dalian Naval Academy. The naval officers will undergo a four year course of instruction to turn them into fighter pilots capable of operating off a carrier. China already has an airfield, in the shape of a carrier deck, built at an inland facility.   The Russians have warned China that it may take them a decade or more to develop the knowledge and skills needed to efficiently run an aircraft carrier. The Chinese are game, and are slogging forward.

Earlier this year, the Russian aircraft carrier Varyag was renamed the Shi Lang (after the Chinese general who took possession of Taiwan in 1681, the first time China ever paid any attention to the island) and given the pennant number 83. The Chinese have been refurbishing the Varyag, one of the Kuznetsov class that Russia began building in the 1980s, for several years now. It is expected to be ready for sea trials by the end of the year.

The Varyag has been tied up in a Chinese shipyard at Dailan since 2002. While the ship is under guard, it can be seen from a nearby highway. From that vantage point, local military and naval buffs have noted that some kind of work is being done on the ship. The only visible signs of this work are a new paint job (in the gray shade used by the Chinese navy) and ongoing work on the superstructure (particularly the tall island on the flight deck.) Many workers can be seen on the ship, and material is seen going into (new stuff) and out of (old stuff) the ship. The new contracts are believed to be for more equipment for the Varyag, in addition to the non-custom stuff already going into the ship.

Originally the Kuznetsovs were conceived of as 90,000 ton, nuclear powered ships, similar to American carriers (complete with steam catapults). Instead, because of the cost, and the complexity of modern (American style) carriers, the Russians were forced to scale back their goals, and ended up with the 65,000 ton (full load ) ships that lacked steam catapults, and used a ski jump type flight deck instead. Nuclear power was dropped, but the Kuznetsov class was still a formidable design. The thousand foot long carrier normally carries a dozen navalized Su-27s (called Su-33s), 14 Ka-27PL anti-submarine helicopters, two electronic warfare helicopters and two search and rescue helicopters. But the ship can carry up to 36 Su-33s and sixteen helicopters. The ship carries 2,500 tons of aviation fuel, allowing it to generate 500-1,000 aircraft and helicopter sorties. Crew size is 2,500 (or 3,000 with a full aircraft load.) Only two ships of this class exist; the original Kuznetsov, which is in Russian service, and the Varyag. Currently, the Kuznetsov is operating in the Mediterranean.

The Chinese have been in touch with Russian naval construction firms, and may have purchased plans and technology for equipment installed in the Kuznetsov. Some Chinese leaders have quipped about having a carrier by 2010 (this would have to be a refurbished Varyag). Even that would be an ambitious schedule, and the Chinese have been burned before when they tried to build new military technology in a hurry.

Plus here is a flight deck depiction of one of their future carrier (not the Varyag) concepts from a Chinese language forum:

The island is up front right by where it says "A".

 

[tomahawk6]

Doesnt seem to be a workable design.

 

[chanman]

You sure that's their's and not some trimaran concept? 

That's a really weird deck layout

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I can see several problems with this design...but I'm sure the PLAN will find them, too- during sea trials.

 

[chanman]

I can see several problems with this design...but I'm sure the PLAN will find them, too- during sea trials.

Hey, is it me, or will you have aircraft crossing paths if you use both landing areas at the same time? 

 

[CougarKing]

Hey, is it me, or will you have aircraft crossing paths if you use both landing areas at the same time? 

Impractical carrier designs, aside, is anyone here not surprised the content of the article above the picture? That they PRC finally decided to use that ex-Soviet hulk that used to be called the VARYAG and will be renamed the SHI LANG/施琅?

And in other news:

the PRC will be conducting their 1st spacewalk soon:

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/09/chinas-moon-s-1.html

China's Moon Shot
By David Axe September 22, 2008 | 12:00:00 PMCategories: Chinaphobia, Space   
Last week NASA worried aloud that chilling relations with Russia would cut off U.S. astronauts from catching rides on Russian rockets to the International Space Station, once NASA's Space Shuttle fleet has completely retired around 2010.

Based on news coming out of China today, maybe they can hitchhike on China's new moon-landing, space-station-building rocket fleet, which this week will support Beijing's first spacewalk.

The "Shenzhou 7" mission and spacewalk "will help China master docking techniques needed for the construction of a space station, likely to be achieved initially by joining one Shenzhou orbiter to another," The Associated Press reports.

Future goals are believed to include an unmanned moon landing around 2012, a mission to return samples in 2015, and possibly a manned lunar mission by 2017 — three years ahead of the U.S. target date for returning to the moon.

Don't fret: "China's space experts have denied any military intent in its space program," Bernama assures us.

And Confirmed by MSNBC:

China eyes its first spacewalk
Space officials preparing for October launch
By Leonard David
Space.com
updated 12:39 p.m. PT, Tues., June. 24, 2008
China is stepping up and out in the world of space exploration.

Space officials in the country are readying the Shenzhou 7 spacecraft for an October sendoff, one that will carry a trio of their "taikonauts" into Earth orbit. The mission not only promises to strengthen China's human space travel agenda, but also provides a glimpse into actions to be undertaken in the future.

China has initiated a step-by-step approach in flying their taikonauts: The single-person Shenzhou 5 flight in 2003 of 14 orbits; the two-person voyage of Shenzhou 6 in 2005 lasting 5 days; and soon to head skyward, a threesome of space travelers. And on this flight, one of those space travelers is to carry out China's first spacewalk, also known as extravehicular activity, or EVA for short.

In some ways, the upcoming mission spotlights the hop, skip, and jump abilities of China in comparison to U.S. space history.

For the U.S., the Mercury series of single-seat flights led to the two-person missions of Gemini spacecraft, followed by sojourns of the Apollo three-person crew capsule. More to the point, in the U.S., the first human-carrying orbital flight of Mercury was in 1962; Gemini in 1965; and Apollo in 1968.

So is there a true measure of growth, albeit somewhat skewed given the driving nature of the Soviet Union versus the U.S. "Moon race"?

Case in point: If this next mission for China is successful in attaining orbit, that country will have taken something like a year less time to move from single-seat orbital flight to Apollo three-seat space travel — contrasted to U.S. human spaceflight progress in Earth orbit.

Learning curve
On one hand, China's steadfast evolution in human space treks is laudable. On the other, given that status card, leading spaceflight aficionados seem to sense different take-home messages.

"Implications, as far as I can see ... few, if any," said Joan Johnson-Freese, an analyst of China's space policy and Chair of the National Security Decision-Making Department at the U.S. Naval War College in Newport, R.I.

Johnson-Freese told Space.com that the U.S. Mercury program of the 1960s was spearheading research just to see if humans could swallow in space ... or how the human psyche would react once in Earth orbit. There were lots of medical questions, she noted.

NASA's Project Mercury was quickly followed by a salvo of 10 human-carrying Gemini flights from March 1965 to November 1966. All-in-all, piloted Mercury and Gemini orbital outings tally up to 14 flights in five years, Johnson-Freese observed — and don't forget those two earlier and piloted suborbital Mercury missions.

"Technology development was incremental because it was all new, but consistent," Johnson-Freese stressed.

"The Chinese will have three flights with a successful mission next fall. They have been able to benefit from lots of lessons learned from both the Americans and the Russians. That is not to downplay the difficulty of the technology or the achievements of the Chinese...they just have the luxury of starting much higher on the learning curve," she concluded.

Pow ... pow ... pow
Given the years of mastering human space travel, is China's blossoming to-do list in order to operate in Earth orbit worth spotlighting?

"Yes, absolutely ... it is worth flagging," said Dean Cheng, an Asian affairs specialist at the U.S.-based Center for Naval Analysis in Alexandria, Virginia.

"Now, the flip side to that, of course, is that it has also been done before. So it's not like they need to engineer everything from scratch," Cheng told Space.com, adding that China can depend on designs similar to those proven to work by the U.S. and former Russians. "But, yes, it is nonetheless impressive."

Cheng points out, however: "The main difference ... there were more Mercury and Gemini flights in the intervening period. What is interesting about the Chinese effort is that they are doing it with so few flights. Four unmanned flights ... then pow-pow- pow ... one-man, two-man, three-man/EVA."


Cheng also underscored the built-in danger to nations that ramp up human spaceflight expertise. Both the U.S. and the Soviet Union lost people during their respective run-ups.

"You have to wonder if the Chinese can sustain a perfect space record," he added. "Obviously, one hope's that they can."


Take-away knowledge
In terms of where China is really headed in human spaceflight, crystal ball gazing is not easy.

Stacking up their one-two-three punch in the field of human spaceflight against U.S. space program heritage doesn't quite match up, said Roger Launius, senior curator for the Division of Space History at the Smithsonian Institution's National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C.

"Learning what China needs to know about conducting a lunar trip, probably a circumlunar trip, on three missions seems a bit thin to me," Launius told Space.com.

While Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo programs might have been exceptionally cautious — and thus took more time and a greater number of missions than the Chinese effort — the knowledge return from the American programs versus China's three flights cannot be anywhere near each other, Launius explained.

"Let's take the Gemini program," Launius said. "A central reason for it was to perfect techniques for rendezvous and docking, EVA, and long duration flight. Assuming that these same skills will be required in a Chinese moon program, and I believe they will, where will the knowledge and experience for them come from in these three missions?"

Launius said that the Gemini flights swamp China in terms of demonstrated skills. The country has yet to rack up the experience base of spacewalking, rendezvous and docking that is now standard in the U.S. and Russia, he added.

"A core question, it seems to me, is this: "Will ground simulation be able to compensate for the lack of orbital experience?" Launius said. "Perhaps, but I'm not sure."

More acclaim than deserved?
Stepping back and taking a larger look at where China's human space program is headed, Launius observed: "Personally, I think the Chinese program is moving forward at a modest pace and is getting a lot of mileage out of the fact that it is a secret effort that forces us to speculate about it. It is receiving among the space community more acclaim than I think it deserves."

Launius said that there's enough in China's statements on future manned moon missions to fuel Western speculation that the country has a vast program, immensely capable, and seeking to at least equal the Americans in a Moon program of its own.

"There is no official Chinese evidence to support the concept of a Chinese human moon program, despite the wishes of some inside the Chinese space program who would love to do it. Occasionally, someone will say something about this to Western media but official documents available do not say anything about such a program," Launius said.

There are those in the U.S. space community that would like to see China hell-bent on sending taikonauts onto the moon's surface, Launius said, because they believe it would spark a new space race. "I'm not sure that would be the outcome of these Chinese efforts ... but I also see no evidence for serious Chinese efforts in that direction," he added.

Picking up speed
Meanwhile, preparations to launch Shenzhou 7 are picking up speed in China.

According to Chinese news services, the spacecraft has undergone modifications to accommodate an airlock. A spacewalking-qualified space suit has been okayed for flight. There have been extensive checkouts of the craft to fulfill its mission objectives.

What day the three-person crew takes off from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center on its Long March booster in October is yet to be announced. Earlier, there has been comment about broadcasting the spacewalk live on television.

Moreover, the spacewalk mission — and the duties to be performed during the EVA — has been deemed as crucial for China to make possible a space laboratory or station in Earth orbit.

Earlier this month, it was noted that six taikonauts had been selected for the upcoming mission from 14 candidates — a crowd that included Yang Liwei, China's first space explorer who flew solo on Shenzhou 5. For Shenzhou 7, three will fly the actual mission with the others tagged as substitutes.


Also, Yuanwang 6, an ocean-going tracking ship, has been delivered for service in Shanghai to participate in the Shenzhou 7 flight and to assist in the slated spacewalk. It joins sister ship, Yuanwang 5, to take part in maritime space surveying and mission controlling operations.

Qi Faren, academician of the Chinese Academy of Engineering and researcher of China Spaceflight Technology Research Institute — credited as chief designer of China's first five Shenzhou spaceships and chief consultant for Shenzhou 6 and Shenzhou 7 - has been quoted as saying that plans are already underway for Shenzhou 8 and Shenzhou 9. He added that "the intervals between each launch will become shorter."

© 2007 Space.com.

 

[tomahawk6]

Have they ever conducted a space launch before ?

 

[CougarKing]

Have they ever conducted a space launch before ?

Doesn't the name Colonel Yang Li  Wei/杨利伟, the 1st PRC Taikonaut in space, ring a bell?

 

[George Wallace]

No?

 

[tomahawk6]

Ok did some reading.First Chinese astronaut launched in 03 and two others last year. I think they are finding out space exploration is very expensive but hey if it keeps them from invading Taiwan or their neighbors I wish them all the best.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s Globe and Mail, is an interesting perspective on what I think is the real ‘contest’ between China and the USA – the competition in which aircraft carriers are quite irrelevant:

http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080923.wasia0924/BNStory/robColumnsBlogs/home

The tables have turned on Wall Street

MARCUS GEE

Globe and Mail Update
September 24, 2008 at 6:00 AM EDT

As far as we know, U.S. President George W. Bush didn't exactly ask China for help when he discussed the Wall Street crisis with Chinese President Hu Jintao on the telephone Monday. Mr. Bush is a proud man and the United States a proud country, still certain of its position at the centre of the economic and financial universe.

But the shift in power from West to East must have been palpable all the same. Wall Street, the citadel of Western capitalism, is in its worst crisis in decades. The American economy, once the powerhouse of the world, is on the brink of recession. China, meanwhile, continues to grow at a pace of more than 10 per cent a year, with most experts predicting only a modest slowdown as a result of the troubles in the United States.

Two famous U.S. investment banks, Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch, have vanished from the face of the earth as independent entities. Two more are transforming themselves to survive.

China's four biggest banks all report healthy balance sheets and big cash reserves. None has been seriously compromised by the Wall Street debacle.

The biggest bank in the world, based on its market capitalization as of Sept. 15, was Chinese: Industrial & Commercial Bank of China. In fact, three of the top 10 banks by that measure are Chinese (while four are American).

After it bails out Wall Street, the United States will be another $700-billion (U.S.) in the hole. Its government budget deficit is already the highest ever recorded in dollar terms. Next year, with the bailout costs added in, it could approach $1-trillion, which would also make it one of the biggest on record as a percentage of the economy.

China, meanwhile, sits Buddha-like atop $1.8-trillion in foreign exchange reserves. Its debt and deficit are negligible by American standards.

The United States needs China, economically and financially, as never before. For some time now, China has helped prop up the U.S. economy by plowing the earnings from its soaring exports into U.S. government securities such as Treasury bonds. That has effectively financed the growing U.S. government debt, at the same time keeping U.S. interest rates relatively low and (until recently) the dollar relatively high. That, in turn, has allowed U.S. consumers to snap up Chinese-made consumer goods for cheap, buoying the American standard of living.

The Wall Street crisis means that Washington relies even more on Chinese wealth. Just three years ago, American legislators felt confident enough to spike the purchase of Unocal Corp., a leading U.S. oil producer, by China National Offshore Oil Corp. It was a snub to Beijing from a United States that felt uneasy about seeing its corporate assets snapped up by a foreign power.

Today, slices of Wall Street corporate giants are being shopped around to Chinese investors like so many used cars. China Investment Corp., Beijing's $200-billion sovereign wealth fund, is being courted to increase its 9.9 per cent stake in Morgan Stanley, for example. Suddenly, Chinese money doesn't look so bad.

It's a breathtaking reversal of fortune. Remember that in past financial crises – Russia's loan default of 1998, the Asian financial crisis of the late 1990s, the Mexican devaluation crisis of 1994 – it was Washington or its stand-in, the International Monetary Fund, that galloped to the rescue. Now it is Wall Street that is in need of rescuing.

No, it hasn't quite come to the point where Mr. Bush is pleading to Mr. Hu for a lifeline. Even if he did, Asian governments are trying to steer as far away from the Wall Street mess as they can. But Asia's new influence is being felt all the same. The dominoes started falling in the first place partly because Asian investors were getting frightened about the money they had tied up in U.S. mortgage giants Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. When they started pulling some of their money back, the mortgage twins began to crumble.

It is not just the U.S. financial system that has been weakened by the past week's crisis. It is the whole brand of U.S.-style capitalism. Henry Paulson, the U.S. Treasury Secretary, has been fond of delivering lectures to Beijing on everything from how they value their currency to how they run their banking system. Just imagine him trying to do that now.

The global economy is being rebalanced – a process that got underway, seriously, in about 2000 - when the € market was born. This ought not to surprise us because it has happened over and over again – most recently when the $(US) replaced the £(UK) as the world’s reserve currency, but that process, too, took a long time to accomplish.

Will the 圆 (Chinese ¥ or RMB) really challenge for position as the global reserve currency? Not in my lifetime and not, I expect in most of yours, either. But, China is a major power – politically and economically – and we must treat it and deal with it on that basis.

 

[a_majoor]

There are several flies in the ointment of this rebalancing (although it will take place regardless of what "we" might want or believe). In no particular order:

1. The Demographic crisis. The economic future of the EU, Russia and China is not looking good as their populations are expected to crash in the 2020-2040 time frame. Holding the Euro as the global reserve currency might not make a lot of sense if the EU's population and economy is shrinking. Similarly, the Chinese "one child" policy is set to bite them in the 2020's. Mark Steyn's "Gay Superpower" trope aside, the social turmoil caused by the population imbalance (not to mention the ever increasing ratio of retired people to workers) will almost certainly have a negative impact on the Chinese economy, and thus the East Asian economic zone. Russia will see its ethnic Russian population reduced by the most dramatic amount in the 2030's. Lots of unpredictable things could happen as they no longer have hands to man the factories or secure the borders.

2. The weakening of the Liberal Democratic order. By this I mean the Anglosphere's prescription of Individual Rights, Property ownership and the Rule of Law. We will be trading in an environment where these things are partially or totally absent, and Fascist, Autocratic, Theocratic or Conservative powers really won't care about our views of contract law or labour relations.

3. The "rebalancing" of international institutions. This will also not be in our favour. If China, the EU, Russia etc. decide to throw their weight around in changing the rules of the WTO, ICC or other International fora in their favour we will look back fondly on the corrupt and ineffective UN of the 1990's. I suspect autocratic, Fascist, Theocratic or Conservative powers will want a "lean and mean" anti American institution rather than a slack and corrupt ones like they have to work with now.

This rebalancing will not reach a stable equilibrium like the last changeover from the Pound Sterling to the USD.

 

[CougarKing]

Ok did some reading.First Chinese astronaut launched in 03 and two others last year. I think they are finding out space exploration is very expensive but hey if it keeps them from invading Taiwan or their neighbors I wish them all the best.

T6,

That Chinese astronaut/taikonaut that went up in late 2003 was Colonel Yang Liwei, IIRC. I suppose it was wrong for me to assume that his name had already reached the same level of fame as other space greats such as Russian cosmonauts Yuri Gagarin or US astronauts John Glenn or Neil Armstrong.

Chinese space exploration is just a further manifestation of Chinese ultra-nationalism, but it certainly will not distract Beijing from eyeing on getting Taiwan back.

 

[tomahawk6]

I dont think these have been photo shopped. ;D

Chinese astronauts, (L-R) Jing Haipeng, Zhai Zhigang and Liu Boming, all born in 1966 and all holding the rank of colonel, salute during a press conference inside the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Centre in a remote desert area in northwest China's Gansu province, on September 24, 2008. The three Chinese astronauts due to blast off on September 25 for the country's third manned space mission, including a first space walk.

 

[CougarKing]

Meanwhile "La Boca Grande"... COUGH... I mean Hugo Chavez arrives in Beijing for talks with PRC officials.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/09/23/china.chavez.visit/index.html

Venezuelan president arrives in China
Story Highlights
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez visits Beijing to meet with top Chinese officials

Talks expected to include "bilateral relations and issues of mutual concern"

Venezuela is reportedly looking to purchase Chinese K-8 military training planes

In July, Chavez made a similar visit to Russia, purchasing military equipment

(CNN) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez arrived in Beijing Tuesday to meet with top Chinese officials and to discuss the possibility of buying weapons, state-run media reported.

Chavez is in China for meetings with President Hu Jintao, along with other "relevant state leaders," according to the Xinhua news agency.

Their discussions are expected to include "bilateral relations and issues of mutual concern," Xinhua reported. Venezuela is reportedly working on a deal to purchase Chinese K-8 military training planes.

The nations are also expected to sign cooperation agreements in the areas of "justice, sports, and quality supervision and inspection."

Two months ago, Chavez made a similar visit to Russia, meeting with Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and President Dmitry Medvedev and is scheduled to be there again this week.

During the July visit, the Venezuelan leader negotiated for the purchase of Russian military equipment.

Since then, Chavez has bragged that it has Russia as an ally. Two Russian strategic bombers have been deployed to Venezuela and three Russian warships have sailed for Venezuela for joint maneuvers with the leftist government.

The moves come amid increasing tensions with the United States over the Russia-Georgia conflict last month. The intensifying contacts with Venezuela appear to be a response to the U.S. dispatch of warships to the Black Sea delivering aid to Georgia, which angered the Kremlin.

BTW, for those of you who wonder what the phrase "shut up" in Mandarin is...just say BI ZUI(bee zwei)/闭嘴. However I really doubt that the CCP leaders will even say such a thing if Chavez again goes off one of his inflammatory speeches against the US and the West like he did during this Pan-Hispanic conference last year, IIRC, when Spain's King told him to "shut up".

Still, one must not mistake this meeting as a sort of friendly meeting between two Communist nations, since China' s main interest in Venezuela lies principally in the oil that Venezuela offers and not in reviving some old Pan-Communist movement.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from the BBC’s web site,  is an interesting article on the Chinese space programme:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7635397.stm

What's driving China space efforts?

ANALYSIS
By Paul Rincon
Science reporter

The launch of Shenzhou-VII by China is another reminder of the country's growing confidence and capability in space.

It delivers a message to the traditional space powers: after a slow start, China is rising fast.

This mission is a critical step in a "three-step" human spaceflight programme aimed at docking spacecraft together to form a small orbiting laboratory and, ultimately, building a large space station.

It has sent a robotic spacecraft, Chang'e, to the Moon and there are plans to land a robotic rover on the lunar surface in 2010.

Last year, China faced international criticism when it used a medium-range ballistic missile to destroy an ageing weather satellite in a weapons test.

But what are the forces driving Beijing's space endeavours?

Economic reasons are first and foremost, explains Dean Cheng, senior Asia analyst at think tank CNA in Washington DC.

"From a civilian perspective, you are fostering the development of advanced technologies," he explains.

Another driver is diplomacy, said Mr Cheng. A wide-ranging space programme showed the rest of the world that China had arrived on the international stage.

"That fits with hosting the Olympics, that fits with a burgeoning economy, and that fits with the world's largest foreign capital reserves," he explained.

There is also a domestic motivation: success in space helped legitimise China's regime in the eyes of its population.

"There are problems like melamine in milk. There are issues of corruption. But the party has shown it is able to achieve things that no previous Chinese government has ever done, and that China is among the first-rank powers in advanced technology," Mr Cheng told BBC News.

'Luxury item'

Then there is the military rationale: a nation that could launch multiple satellites on one rocket could put multiple warheads on a single rocket.

Space technology also required the development of precision capabilities which carried over to weapons systems.

Beijing's manned efforts should be considered separately from the rest of its space programme, Mr Cheng said.

"The manned programme is all the things I have mentioned and more. It is a sign of a wealthy country - this is a luxury item. It puts China ahead of every other Asian country - significantly - in terms of space," he explained.

Human spaceflight also served as advertising for the country's commercial launch capability.

If China was sufficiently confident in its own space technology to launch its citizens into space, then it was certainly safe enough to launch another country's satellites.

"It is a prestige programme, no question," said Dr Roger Launius, senior curator in the division of space history at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington DC.

"I think China has entered the [manned spaceflight] arena for the same reasons that the United States and the Soviet Union did in 1961.

"It is a demonstration of technological virtuosity. It's a method of showing the world they are second to none - which is a very important objective for them."

Steady progress

China's steady, methodical progress in space has certainly highlighted the challenges faced by Nasa as it grapples with the transition to a post-shuttle era.

The space shuttle is due to be retired in two years. But its replacement, Ares-Orion, will not begin flying until 2015. In the interim, the US will be reliant on Russia for launching crew to the International Space Station.

But tensions between the two nations over the Georgia conflict mean that Nasa has faced considerable political pressure to keep the shuttle flying beyond 2010.

And, unlike China, the European Space Agency has not developed a manned space transportation system of its own.

However, suggestions that China has engaged in a new space race with the US or the other traditional space powers are wide of the mark, experts say.

"This is not the 1960s. We are not watching China put up repeated manned shots one after the other. But they are intent on ensuring they don't have any spectacular failures either" said Dean Cheng.

Dr Launius agreed: "There is not the same level of concern or interest registered in the US for a competition with China in space. I don't think they view that as an issue in Europe either."

He added: "There is a space race underway, but it is an Asian space race. It is between China, Japan, maybe Korea, certainly India. They are competing with each other for stature in that context.

"And the Chinese, because of their full service capability - humans, robots and military - are at this point in time probably the leaders in that race. But those other countries have lots of capability too."

Though China may only be the third country to launch a human into orbit, it still has a long way to go if it plans to mirror the achievements of the US and Russia.

"When you look at the programme as an observer from the outside, they've shown success in building spacecraft that can fly humans and do certain things," said Roger Launius.

"You can't build space stations until you can do those kinds of activities. You can't go to the Moon until you can do those kinds of activities. And they're not there yet.

"They're planning an EVA (spacewalk) this time and I hope they are successful. But one EVA does not make a programme."

Paul.Rincon-INTERNET@bbc.co.uk

I think that the economic factors are the main driver. That would square with what some Chinese people (academics, admittedly, with vested interests) told me. They believe that some areas of pharmaceutical and materials research can only be done in a space station and they also believe that these areas are central to China winning the “race to the top.”

I also think the diplomatic and military motives are one in the same. The Chinese want a strategic missile force but they want it as part of a larger programme to make China a respected (rather than feared) global leader. Military power is an essential component of ‘respect’ but, as I understand the Chinese, that ‘respect’ must have a balance of soft and hard power with none of the components being overwhelming.

I believe that the Chinese ‘see’ the world as a circle, with China in the ‘middle’ and surrounded by three arcs:

• The West, which can be subdivided into North America, Europe and Australia/NZ – this is a very important region;

• The South, Africa and Latin America – which is the least important region but, still, not to be ignored or insulted; and

• Asia, including East and South Asia, the Pacific nations and West Asia (the “Stans,” Iran and the Middle East) – which, being their ‘backyard’ is the most important region.

The Chinese do not want any enemies but the need friends and clients in Asia and client/resource providers in the South.

 

[GAP]

In the past decade China has extended its' influence to the Africa nations, some with oil reserves, some not. It seems to be pursuing what used to be Russian sphere of influence in the Africa's/Middle East.

 

[CougarKing]

Here's an interesting web blog article that discusses the US Presidential Election's effects on the Chinese who are observing it, especially the 253 million internet users on the mainland.

Some of the effects of the candidates have on people is also cross-cultural, such as Barack Obama's appeal to the Chinese youth as well as the older Chinese generations' wariness and surprise that a black man/hei ren/黑人 would even be able to succeed up to that level of American society.


http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/25/1448502.aspx

BEIJING – Last week, three books about Barack Obama were published in China – to little fanfare.

Despite being prominently displayed inside one of Beijing’s larger bookstores, the books – two were his own and the third was a collection of his speeches and writings – attracted little interest the day we visited.

The shop clerk said sales were "healthy" for a new release, but "The No. 1 Bodyguard in China," a biography of a former Chinese security guard, sitting next to "The Audacity of Hope," drew more curiosity. No books by John McCain were available; apparently his writings have yet to be translated into Chinese.

Adrienne Mong / NBC News
Books about Barack Obama were just translated into Chinese.


"At the average person’s level in China, I’ve just found [the U.S. presidential election] to be less interesting than any other thing – the Olympics, the earthquake, other things going on in China that are of huge historical importance to China itself," observed James Fallows, who’s been based here for two years writing for The Atlantic Monthly.

Apart from the events he mentioned, there were also the winter storms that paralyzed half the country; the Tibet riots; torch relay protests; violence in Xinjiang; and now the melamine-tainted milk scandal. No surprise then that most Chinese have been focusing on domestic events.

But, as usual when it comes to China, it’s never that simple. As we talked to people about the American election, we found varying levels of interest and curiosity.

‘It’s just for fun’
"Many people pay attention to the election but with different motivations," said Professor Jin Canrong, Associate Dean at the School of International Studies. According to Jin, interest in China is broken down into three broad categories: official (government), intellectual (academics and policy analysts), and laobaixing (ordinary people). (my addition: laobaixing/老百姓 actually means more of "crowds" to me, though it depends on the context, obviously)
"For intellectual communities, they want to learn something from the process and try to improve China’s approach of governance," said Jin. "But for the average people, especially young people, it’s just for fun."

"It’s entertaining for an outsider," agreed Li Xin, a young woman who edits an economic magazine. "That makes you want to watch and follow and see what’s going on next."


And while the government and think tanks have a sophisticated grasp of how the U.S. election campaign works, ordinary Chinese seem bewildered by the process. "I think the election process is quite complicated with all the rules of caucuses, primaries, and the general election," said Li.

Especially the election conclusion. One Chinese acquaintance told me he was stunned, when he first witnessed a presidential election after moving to the United States, to see a candidate concede defeat. "The only form of democracy we Chinese have ever seen really is what is in Taiwan," he said. "And that is completely different. The loser never just gives up." ( my comment:  COUGH Guomindang candidate Lien Chan from a couple of years ago...COUGH ;D)

Personality, not policy
"We noticed some differences in their policy towards China," said Jin. "For John McCain, he will pay more attention to [the] so-called military build-up of China, the religious freedoms, and Taiwan…. For Obama, we have some concern about the possible trade protectionism, some dispute around climate change, human rights, especially the human rights issue relating [to] Tibet."

But because the policy differences at this stage seem minute or elusive to most Chinese, they focus instead on the candidates’ personalities. "McCain, he’s a veteran, he’s very patriotic, and he’s 70. He’s got all this old stuff going on," said Annie Gong, a 20-year old college junior. "Obama, of course, he’s young, cute…but I think he’s kind of lacking in experience."

In general, young Chinese, however, seem drawn to the Illinois senator. "I think Obama is really exciting," said Li, who is 29. "He represents the fresh face of America. The typical American dream."

And in a country which counts 253 million people as internet users – more than in the United States – Obama’s internet savvy has been noted. "His team is very skillful in communicating with young people by the internet," observed Jin.

But for older Chinese, Obama’s race is a stumbling block. "I’ve been struck by how many high-level people in China are sort of thrown off their feet by the idea of a black person possibly as the president of the U.S.," said Fallows.

Racism isn’t enough to explain their reaction to Obama. Throughout the Cold War, the Chinese were fed a diet of anti-capitalist propaganda, a narrative that portrayed the U.S. political and economic system as corrupt and immoral. American capitalism, according to this viewpoint, was the root of its manifold social ills: inequality, sexual immorality, urban poverty, violence, and, especially, racism.

On Wednesday, one of our interns noticed that a translation of a U.S. article discussing how race could cost Obama votes was being widely circulated on some of China’s popular websites. 

The fact of Obama as a U.S. presidential candidate creates anxiety for this older generation of Chinese. "How is it possible that someone who grew up in that system can succeed?" a local Chinese journalist asked rhetorically."I think his success upsets those people’s world view – their understanding of what American society is."

U.S. - China relations
So far, the Chinese government has stayed mum on its preferences. The leadership in Beijing appears to favor neither candidate, but "If there were a huge debate over the future of Taiwan, huge U.S. debate over a military rivalry with China, it might be different," said Fallows.

Also, relations between Beijing and Washington have been on a stable course in recent years.

"People tend to think, there will be no dramatic change in policy [with the incoming administration]," noted Jin.

But whoever ends up as the U.S. president, one thing remains clear to those living here: he will need to cooperate with the Chinese leadership. "There is such thoroughgoing connection that it just is fantasy that one can go without the other," said Fallows.

Ultimately, though, what is important to the Chinese is that America stays a true friend. "As a Chinese, I will be very happy if I saw one candidate say he [wants to] establish a very good contact with China," said Edmund Lu, a business school student. "But if he says he doesn’t like China or he supports Taiwan independence, I will feel very sad. I will not support him." (my comment: how typical   : )

 

[CougarKing]

And the 1st spacewalk goes off without any problems.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-09/27/content_10122755.htm

President Hu says spacewalk a major breakthrough 

www.chinaview.cn  2008-09-27 18:35:59     

Special Report: Third Manned Space Mission 

Commentary: Taikonaut Zhai's small step historical leap for China

Backgrounder: Chinese footprints in outer space

    BEIJING, Sept. 27 (Xinhua) -- The spacewalk performed by Chinese taikonauts Zhai Zhigang Saturday afternoon marks a major breakthrough in China's space program, Chinese President Hu Jintao said.

    Hu talked with the trio taikonauts at the Beijing Aerospace Control Center for the Shenzhou-7 mission at 6:35 p.m. Saturday, when he inquired the physical conditions of the three taikonauts.

    "Your country and your fellow citizens thank you for your devotion to the space program," he said.

    He congratulated the trio over the success of the spacewalk, and encouraged them to continue the efforts for a "complete success.

    Zhai Zhigang was assisted during the spacewalk by Liu Boming in the orbit module. China is the third country in the world to accomplish the feat after the United States and Russia.