CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora

[dapaterson]

It's disingenuous to lay this entirely at the feet of only one political party. Especially in the 2011-2015 timeframe, the Conservative government had every opportunity to advance the purchase of the F35 but chose not to do so.

Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Canadian procurement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[FSTO]

It's disingenuous to lay this entirely at the feet of only one political party. Especially in the 2011-2015 timeframe, the Conservative government had every opportunity to advance the purchase of the F35 but chose not to do so.

Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Canadian procurement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, every government twists itself into knots about military procurement. Maybe if they just announce the program without too much fanfare any blowback from the usual suspects would maybe last one newscycle and regular Canadians would hardly notice at all.

 

[Good2Golf]

It's disingenuous to lay this entirely at the feet of only one political party. Especially in the 2011-2015 timeframe, the Conservative government had every opportunity to advance the purchase of the F35 but chose not to do so.

Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Canadian procurement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Harper would have likely had a little more respect by some if he had at least approved the deal…

 

[dapaterson]

Harper would have likely had a little more respect by some if he had at least approved the deal…

Imagine if RCAF leadership had been able to articulate things beyond "Wanna buy!"

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Imagine if RCAF leadership had been able to articulate things beyond "Wanna buy!"

If I’m remembering timelines correctly, wasn’t that Blondin? He was too busy with Mess Kits and DEU changes…

The one time I was around Wheeler and heard him speak, he just embarrassed himself and likely knew if by some smirking faces.

Not sure those were “better days” for the RCAF…

 

[Good2Golf]

If I’m remembering timelines correctly, wasn’t that Blondin? He was too busy with Mess Kits and DEU changes…

The one time I was around Wheeler and heard him speak, he just embarrassed himself and likely knew if by some smirking faces.

Not sure those were “better days” for the RCAF…

No…it was Super Nav when Harper was in his final decision space.

 

[MTShaw]

One thing that is bothering me not only the global parts availability but the parts availability in total. Bombardier will eventually drive itself into the bankruptcy giving Canada yet another orphan fleet.

 

[Good2Golf]

One thing that is bothering me not only the global parts availability but the parts availability in total. Bombardier will eventually drive itself into the bankruptcy giving Canada yet another orphan fleet.

Don’t think so. Even if they are actually tasked to provide something, I’m pretty sure that Bombardier will in no way *bear any of the CAPEX cost for modifying biz jets.

 

[MTShaw]

Don’t think so. Even if they are actually tasked to provide something, I’m pretty sure that Bombardier will in no way *bear any of the CAPEX cost for modifying biz jets.

I agree with the cost to modify the jets. However, I’m concerned about the parts for the Global jets themselves. Boeing is frequently trying to commit corporate suicide but I’d wager the ongoing parts chain for Boeing’S 737ng is more viable than a Bombardier Global.

 

[Photopilot]

I agree with the cost to modify the jets. However, I’m concerned about the parts for the Global jets themselves. Boeing is frequently trying to commit corporate suicide but I’d wager the ongoing parts chain for Boeing’S 737ng is more viable than a Bombardier Global.

I worked at Bombardier at the Downsview site. The Global Express series of aircraft are selling very well. They probably have 20 to 30 years before they are going to retire the series. Spare parts won't be a problem. They are not afraid of stealing parts off of aircraft being built, waiting tor a customer to pick up their aircraft or stores, if they have an opportunity to sell a part to a customer with an AOG. Spare parts sell for 3 or 4 times the cost of the part for the line.

I still think the P-8 is the better option, even if I still have Bombardier stock.

 

[FSTO]

A consortium that include Bombardier, General Dynamics Mission Systems-Canada, De Havilland Canada, PAL Aerospace, Thales, ATLAS Aeronautik Inc and 10 other firms or aerospace associations wrote letters to the following Ministers: Trudeau, deputy prime minister Chrystia Freeland, Defence Minister Anand, Industry Minister François-Philippe Champagne and Procurement Minister Helena Jaczek.

They are trotting out the old tropes of: "an opportunity for Canada to re-think its surveillance capabilities. Canadian-built solutions should, and must, be considered on equal footing with foreign-built options."

They also tossed in the opportunity for foreign sales of Canadian Military Equipment. Like when the fuck has that ever happened?

Avro Arrow anyone?

Fuckers, they are going to royally fuck this up.

 

[Halifax Tar]

"an opportunity for Canada to re-think its surveillance capabilities. Canadian-built solutions should, and must, be considered on equal footing with foreign-built options."

That kills us every F-ing time.

 

[Photopilot]

Interesting that de Havilland would be part of the consortium. They would not have a hope in hell of getting part of that contract. It would go to Bombardier and be centred around the Global Express. While I like the Dash 8 400, no one would build a sub hunter/survallance/battlefield intelligence platform on a turboprop aircraft with a cabin as narrow as they have. You would also have to do something about the aircraft range too.

 

[dapaterson]

Maybe they're pulling a F35, where supply chain efficiency is ignored to spread those federal dollars all over the place, to build lots of local support for an overpriced boondoggle?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

A consortium that include Bombardier, General Dynamics Mission Systems-Canada, De Havilland Canada, PAL Aerospace, Thales, ATLAS Aeronautik Inc and 10 other firms or aerospace associations wrote letters to the following Ministers: Trudeau, deputy prime minister Chrystia Freeland, Defence Minister Anand, Industry Minister François-Philippe Champagne and Procurement Minister Helena Jaczek.

They are trotting out the old tropes of: "an opportunity for Canada to re-think its surveillance capabilities. Canadian-built solutions should, and must, be considered on equal footing with foreign-built options."

They also tossed in the opportunity for foreign sales of Canadian Military Equipment. Like when the fuck has that ever happened?

Avro Arrow anyone?

Fuckers, they are going to royally fuck this up.

If by “rethink” they mean “totally destroy”, sure…

 

[Good2Golf]

Interesting that de Havilland would be part of the consortium. They would not have a hope in hell of getting part of that contract. It would go to Bombardier and be centred around the Global Express. While I like the Dash 8 400, no one would build a sub hunter/survallance/battlefield intelligence platform on a turboprop aircraft with a cabin as narrow as they have. You would also have to do something about the aircraft range too.

…unless it’s a ‘System of Systems’ pitch coming…

Perhaps a tri-level capability system:

• P-8A Boeing
• RC-7 BBD/DGMS-C (w DH/PAL subs)
• P-4 DH/PAL (DH/PAL prime w BBD/GD as sub)

Many would be happy just to see Ken *Rowe’s ego (eg. IMP) on the list…

 

[DBNSG]

…unless it’s a ‘System of Systems’ pitch coming…

Perhaps a tri-level capability system:

• P-8A Boeing
• RC-7 BBD/DGMS-C (w DH/PAL subs)
• P-4 DH/PAL (DH/PAL prime w BBD/GD as sub)

Many would be happy just to see Ken Rose’s ego (eg. IMP) on the list…

Its Ken Rowe. Still the largest single owner of Royal Bank stock

 

[Good2Golf]

Its Ken Rowe. Still the largest single owner of Royal Bank stock

Yeah, I got Apple-corrected…clearly Apple hasn’t experienced the Gibraltar-sized ego that is Ken Rowe…

 

[Spencer100]

A consortium that include Bombardier, General Dynamics Mission Systems-Canada, De Havilland Canada, PAL Aerospace, Thales, ATLAS Aeronautik Inc and 10 other firms or aerospace associations wrote letters to the following Ministers: Trudeau, deputy prime minister Chrystia Freeland, Defence Minister Anand, Industry Minister François-Philippe Champagne and Procurement Minister Helena Jaczek.

They are trotting out the old tropes of: "an opportunity for Canada to re-think its surveillance capabilities. Canadian-built solutions should, and must, be considered on equal footing with foreign-built options."

They also tossed in the opportunity for foreign sales of Canadian Military Equipment. Like when the fuck has that ever happened?

Avro Arrow anyone?

Fuckers, they are going to royally fuck this up.

You can see this coming a mile away. Many discount the hate for Boeing in some quarters. They blamed for the destruction of Canada's National OEM prime Champion.

GD is not the right partner for international sales. They are the maker of Bombardier's only real competitor Gulfstream. So would have to put some kind of agreement. Plus is this with GDMS Canada division only?

Remember if this can get the budget up by doing a project like this and call it Canadian made and R&D....even if no planes are even bought its a win. The units on the flightline are a byproduct not the goal.

And one more crazy. If I was Airbus I would throw in a made in Canada bid too....just to screw around. They could show just as much Canadian content or more than Bombardier. Get Thales onboard And throw in letter from France daying they may use the product for their MPA....you have an even better bid than Bombardier.

Oh and think DHC was on the letter as they are close to Bombardier and still may make some parts. Or will help in manufacture on the MPA. I don't think it was about using a Dash8

 

[DBNSG]

Yeah, I got Apple-corrected…clearly Apple hasn’t experienced the Gibraltar-sized ego that is Ken Rowe…

Oh I would call that Ego at least as large as southwest England