Common Law, training and Pat Platoon!

[beach_bum]

As far as the comment about being informed, we werent.   Never once were we told that we would be apart this long becuase if we had been informed we probably wouldnt have done it.

Are you trying to tell me that at no point in time your husband wasn't told how long his courses were or that he would be gone on tours etc?  I'm having a very hard time believing that.  Perhaps he just chose not to inform you as not to upset you.

The military is not being "cruel", separation is just part of the job.

 

[Shadow Cat]

Actually we were aware of how long each course was and that did not come as a surprise.  What comes as a surprise is that we were todl that his course was long enough to move us and in fact it really sin't and that while he was waiting for his training that he would be sitting around twiddling his thumbs for four months away from his family.  Tours are fine those are usually 6 months.  I can handle that hands down now.  I mean really I am coming up on that mark now.  But when you are looking at 16+ months there is a big difference in that than just a tour.

Yes we were both niave going into this.  We thought that after BMQ he was coming home for some vacation which didn't happen.  We thought that we would be with him during his QL3's and we knew nothing about PAT (PRETC).

I don't know what type of realtionship you have but my DH is not the type to keep things hidden to "not upset" me and with all honesty he is just as upset if not more upset at this unexpected seperation. 

 

[Air Force Medic]

Sorry Beach-bum but we were not informed either and I was there for much of the enrollment process, well all that I was allowed to be there for, and we asked alot of questions and each time we were told 10 weeks of BMQ another 16 weeks plus a further 2 in B.C. for trade training, then posted and probably the first deployment would follow after another year of training........(which would happend at her unit and we would have already been in housing by then.  Now from basic we find out BMQ is weeks plus they are keeping her for a further week for parades for Nov.11, followed by SQ (which she asked and was told no she would not have to do....I was there for that question) now trade training is 16 weeks in Borden followed by 13 weeks in B.C.... Oh and so far she has been payed almost nothing, just over 300 dollars and they can't say when pay will be straightened out.......thank god we had some savings and I was working till a layoff last week....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr so I have to agree with Shadow Cat we were not given all the goods or we would certainly have thought more seriously about how to go about things while she went into training.  Thank god we have a strong relationship too or the unknown would have been even more difficult than it is now..............sorry if I sound like i'm ranting or selfish, I want to support her in whatever she wants, but we would have planned much better I can tell you that for sure.

 

[beach_bum]

I don't know what type of realtionship you have but my DH is not the type to keep things hidden to "not upset" me and with all honesty he is just as upset if not more upset at this unexpected seperation.  

What I have told you has nothing to do whatsoever with my own relationship.  It has to do with the four years that I worked in recruiting.  During that time I saw a lot of things happen, and I saw more than one person mislead, or in some cases outright lie to their loved ones.  Generally, they did this to avoid conflict over enrolling.  It happens more than you would like to think. 

Sorry Beach-bum but we were not informed either and I was there for much of the enrollment process, well all that I was allowed to be there for, and we asked alot of questions and each time we were told 10 weeks of BMQ another 16 weeks plus a further 2 in B.C. for trade training, then posted and probably the first deployment would follow after another year of training........(which would happend at her unit and we would have already been in housing by then.  Now from basic we find out BMQ is weeks plus they are keeping her for a further week for parades for Nov.11, followed by SQ (which she asked and was told no she would not have to do....I was there for that question) now trade training is 16 weeks in Borden followed by 13 weeks in B.C.... Oh and so far she has been payed almost nothing, just over 300 dollars and they can't say when pay will be straightened out.......thank god we had some savings and I was working till a layoff last week....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr so I have to agree with Shadow Cat we were not given all the goods or we would certainly have thought more seriously about how to go about things while she went into training.  Thank god we have a strong relationship too or the unknown would have been even more difficult than it is now..............sorry if I sound like i'm ranting or selfish, I want to support her in whatever she wants, but we would have planned much better I can tell you that for sure.

Sorry to hear about your situation.  I am certain that the recruiters did not lie to you.  You have to also understand that there are constant changes being made to training.  Sometimes they add things and sometimes they remove things.  This also affects the length of the course.  I don't know the deal with the SQ story, but perhaps the regs changed in between when you were told this and now.  It happens.  A lot!

Now, as for her pay.  That's just wrong.  I certainly hope they get that fixed and soon!

 

[Shadow Cat]

I  apologize for my assumption.

Personally I have been behind my DH the whole time.  He wanted to quit during BMQ and than agian during SQ just becuase he was finding it difficult to be away from us.  It was his first time away for longer than four days in the 14 years that we have been together.  In order to help him through it, I got a babysitter, cashed in some RRSP's and went up to see him to give him the strength to hopefully pull through the course.

We were never told that he would be sitting in Borden for any length of time and I think that that is what upsets us both so much.  Also the fact that they forgot to enroll him in a course that his name was on and so becuase of their mistake our family has to suffer.

the good news is he is coming home for a week in October but than again it has its drawbacks as it means that we will only see him for a week at XMAS.  But at this point I will take whatever we can get.

 

[Shadow Cat]

Oh and Air Force Medic.   The pay problems seem to be the norm.   Every single person on my DH course and every course thereafter has had problems.   It take about a month and a half to two months to get it straightened out.   Ours was straightened out the week before BMQ graduation.   Made it nice becuase they owed us alot of money and I took the kids up to his graduation.

If you wife has to do SQ you can expect the same problems just not as bad.   You won't get the sep pay until she gets back to her posting base.   They said it was to much paperwork and time to transfer it for only seven weeks.   Still not so bad though.

 

[combat_medic]

So, wait a minute, you knew that your significant other was joining the military, and at no point did you or he consider that you would be apart for extended periods of time? Furthermore, if you have kids, do you really think it's fair to them to uproot them every 6 months, put them in new schools, make them leave their friends etc., just because your hubby is on a course? Screw the amount of time and money that the military would have to spend to pack you up and move you every 6 months like a band of gypsies, isn't the stress and social problems associated with so much moving enough to make you WANT to keep your kids in the same place?

Finally, do you mean to say that the recruiters outright lied to you and your spouse and told you he wouldn't be away for months at a time, or that they would move you every single time he went on course or deployed overseas? I find that difficult to believe.

 

[Shadow Cat]

YOu obviously are unable to read.  Go back and read the posts and than maybe you would have a better understanding of the situation.  As well we are not looking at months here we are looking at over a year to possible two years.

As well do you honestly think that friends are more important than family.  If so I feel sorry for you supposed loved ones.

 

[combat_medic]

Yes, my ability to type over a thousand posts is obviously indicative of my illiteracy. I read the posts, and am familiar with your situation. And yes, it is possible that you could be separated on and off for two years. I've been through long periods of separation, as have thousands of others. They have all survived. Your situation is not unique. In fact, I know of people who have been apart for 3-4 years consecutively, without seeing each other AT ALL during that time. They have all lived. This is part of life, and particularly part of life in the military. If you're looking for sympathy, this is not the place to find it, or the way to go about it.

Yes, I also think it's selfish and unreasonable to cart around little children every few months like a travelling circus. It is cruel to the kids, affects their social development and causes an enormous amount of undue hardship on them. Yes, I think having friends, a support network, a foothold in your community, and a sense of home and continuity for your children are important. More important than packing them at the least whim so they can see a parent once every few weeks when they have a day or two off. If you think your children are an accessory that can be toted around at will without any adverse consequences for their upringing and development, then I feel sorry for YOU. Every kid I know who grew up moving around that often all attested to the fact that it was the most difficult part of their childhood - they usually felt they had no friends, no sense of belonging, and had attachment difficulties with others, which often spilled over into their adult relationships. But I guess seeing their dad on his leave (since he apparently can't fly home) is more important than providing them with a stable home.

Now that we're done with the accusations (and don't they sound just as offensive coming from the other end?), let's get to the crux of the matter.

IF you and your spouse were, in fact, completely unaware of and unprepared for being apart for long periods of time, then you have one of three choices to make;

1. Learn to live with the fact that he will be away. The military has always been like this, it will not change. He will be away a lot, and there's little you can do about it. Establish roots in a community, find a support system (like the family resource centres on base), and make your home the best it can be.
2. Have your spouse leave the military if it is something that you just can't deal with.
3. Get a divorce if you are not able to cope with the separation and they are not willing to leave.

 

[Scott]

I hate to jump in and seemingly oversimplify this but, Shadow Cat, I noticed this as a part of your signature:

That which doesn't kill us will only make us stronger.

I think that line certainly applies in this case.

So that I am not accused of being cold, inexperienced, etc. regarding a situation like this I shall relate the following:

I have been with my spouse for almost 7 years and have spent only 2 years actually with her. It sucks but has worked for us both just as I know you can make your situation work for you.

Nuff said.

 

[Shadow Cat]

I am a military brat and also come from a large family and so being together as a family had always been an important part of our upbringing.  The longest that my father was every away was five months and that was it.  It wasn't two years.  As well I personally loved moving every few years and in fact I carried that in to my early adult years.  Moving at least every two years. 

My biggest problem is not the speration part.  Like I said in another post I can deal with that and I knew that that was gonig to be part of it.  But we were not given the full facts and nobody can deny that.  It is also upsetting that due to the lack of follow up by someonem, we as a family are made to suffer.  When I say family I dont' just mean myself, I mean the children and believe it or not the military member, my husband as well.

I am not looking for sympathy as I know that thousands of individuals have gone through this and they will continue to go through this.  I know that we as a family will get through this and ye sit will make us stronger but it doens't mean that we like it.

We have looked at our options.  If he was to try to get out they would continue to detain him in Borden for at least six months to ensure that he is sure of his decision and thus his course is half over so why bother.  Personally I have been with my husband like I said in another post for 14 years and so the thought of divorce is not an option.  I miss him greatly but if we were to part than I would never have him. 

I still disagree with your opinions on children and uprooting but hey that is life.  Not everyone can agree about everything, right.

 

[D-n-A]

If no one at CFRC told you the information you wanted to know, why didn't you just ask?

 

[Shadow Cat]

Let me ask you this.  Did you know what PAT was before you joined?  Also if you were told that you would be able to move yoru family right after BMQ would you question it?  Like I have said we were niave.  We have learned alot from this. 

 

[Air Force Medic]

Shadow Cat, I wish I knew how to jump to your defence as I feel you certainly deserve it, but I think you and I are still going to be considered outsiders here. Like you I came here only for answers that  we didn't get from recruiting (and I don't believe they lied to us, they just didn't realize we knew nothing about the military). We didn't know what had to be asked. Is it me? Is it you? Why would our questions and concerns provoke such animosity? I have to say I appreciate this site so that I can find some sort of answers and pass them on, but find the anger at simple statements disturbing. Please people myself or from what I have read from Shadow Cat so far, we are not attacking, we are just looking for others out there who can pass on information, direction to find answers and just simply other people who may be able to share their stories as well. And if we can't find that information we write a post in order to find others who may have gone through something similar and may have info to share.

 

[Scott]

Shadow Cat, I wish I knew how to jump to your defence as I feel you certainly deserve it, but I think you and I are still going to be considered outsiders here. Like you I came here only for answers that   we didn't get from recruiting (and I don't believe they lied to us, they just didn't realize we knew nothing about the military). We didn't know what had to be asked. Is it me? Is it you? Why would our questions and concerns provoke such animosity? I have to say I appreciate this site so that I can find some sort of answers and pass them on, but find the anger at simple statements disturbing. Please people myself or from what I have read from Shadow Cat so far, we are not attacking, we are just looking for others out there who can pass on information, direction to find answers and just simply other people who may be able to share their stories as well. And if we can't find that information we write a post in order to find others who may have gone through something similar and may have info to share.

Air Force Medic,

We want the site to be here to help, to inform and to foster an interest in the CF. Sometimes we have some pretty big whiners come through the door and listening to the same ol', same ol' time and time again gets pretty old. I don't see the need for anyone to defend another for there have been no attacks in this thread.

Check fire, the above comment was in no way aimed at you or anyone else participating in this thread.

they just didn't realize we knew nothing about the military

Not trying to cause a stir, but did you tell them you knew nothing about the Military? When I first applied I took my girlfriend with me to the little "info" sessions specifically so she could ask some questions. Answers to those questions led to more questions and eventually she attained a comfort level with what I was about to do. Years later I asked a recruiter if this is the sort of thing that they mind/do not mind doing and he told me that, while it may vary person to person, that he didn't mind at all if it puts someones mind at ease. The preceding advice isn't going to amount to a hill of beans for you, I know, but may for someone else looking in.

And if we can't find that information we write a post in order to find others who may have gone through something similar and may have info to share.

I offered up a simple example of what I have gone through, personally, over the last 7 years. It was not offered in jest or to take a poke, it was offered as "food for thought".

Why would our questions and concerns provoke such animosity?

What I honestly feel that I have been seeing in this thread is someone share their story and ask for input, not get the input they like so they tell the story again and again and again, I have read through the thread a few times just to form this opinion. I don't think that there is any animosity, just differences of opinion, you come to an Army site and you had better be prepared to back up your viewpoints because someone is going to come at you, it's called debate.

Opinion: If you solicit them then you had better be prepared to get a couple that you don't like. Maybe mine, maybe another guys, who cares, you asked for feedback, no one specified that it had to be all positive with hugs and smiles. No matter what your situation, no matter how bad you think it is there is always going to be someone who says, "Suck it up" Some will agree, some will not, c'est la vie.

Check fire, I was not offering any view, merely stating how things work as I see them.

To be perfectly honest about this thread, I feel that I am seeing a bit of crying going on. Yes you are separated from your spouse, yes it sucks, yes you feel deceived, yes all of the above could be improved, yes maybe you need a bit more support, yes maybe the system needs tweaking, need I go on? But none of this can be changed right now so I implore you to try to put on a brave face, I know it's tough, and keep thinking "That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger"

Please people myself or from what I have read from Shadow Cat so far, we are not attacking, we are just looking for others out there who can pass on information, direction to find answers and just simply other people who may be able to share their stories as well.

Never once thought you were attacking and don't see any such activity in the thread. You wanted info and I think you're getting it, you wanted direction and the only direction I can offer further to the above is to try and contact the Family Resource Center in your area, I don't know if they'll help but it's worth a shot. I also shared my story in short and sweet format.

I hope this can clear the air and maybe the Family Resource Center thing will be another avenue for you to approach.

Out.

 

[Air Force Medic]

All I can say is thank you Firefighter that was very well said and I will check out the family resource centre.

 

[George Wallace]

I might also suggest you look in the Threads under "The Home Front" for more advice.  That Section has more topics relevant to these problems than the "Training" Section you are now in. 

 

[Shadow Cat]

All I can say is thank you Firefighter that was very well said and I will check out the family resource centre.

Ditto.  I will say as well that not once did I feel attacked.  Like I have said before people will have different opinions and as long as we agree to disagree then it is all good.  I am always open to a great debate. 

I am going to go a little off topic here but I personally go to another website www.themilitarylfe.ca for all of the hugs and sympathy that I am looking for.  AirForce Medic you might want to check it out as well.  There are some people on there that have been with out their spouses for three years and another person just found out that her DH 8 month course has been reschedule till October 2006 so she is looking at another 20 months of speration on top of the six under her belt.  We offer the little pick me up that sometimes one needs to get through this difficult period.  YOu might even be able to find someone in your region that is without their spouse as well.  It is easier for us that dont live on a base yet to get through this if we have someone that understands.

Check out the MFRC they might be able to offer you some help but the one that I am located at isn't able to.  Well really I shouldn't say that.  They can't offer a lending ear and at the beginning that is what I needed most.  Know that I have six months under my belt what they offer when they offer it is of some use to me.  They have events planned for the kids and parent left behind once a month, for me it is just when a ship is gone.  I don't know how old your children are but they also offer respite care so that you can go and get groceries or go have a cofee with a friend once in awhile.  YOu might want to look into that as well.

Hope to see you on the other site.  This site is for for imformation and I find the other site is for the how can I say this.  The tender shoulder that sometimes the left behind family members need.