• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Comparing our generation with the WW II Generation (and we came off well)

a_majoor

Army.ca Legend
Inactive
Reaction score
36
Points
560
What more can you say?

http://cjunk.blogspot.com/2006/08/grandchildren-of-ww2-vets-have-what-it.html

Grandchildren of WW2 Vets Have What it Takes

Canadian Socialist utopians continue to hand wring as to whether NATO, and especially Canadian Forces, should be involved in the Afghan slugfest. They moan about days-gone-by, when our troops road around in thin skinned APC’s, wore blue helmets, and pretended to be making a difference in the world. Utopians go all mushy and nostalgic when they recall that our troops road around in, or used, antiquated equipment and suffered through material privations as Canada’s government took ever more out their budgets. Ah yes… the good old days, when military men and women were kept in their place! If the Canadian NDP, flagship of “progressivism” had its way, we’d be back there in a moment. Oddly though, these same progressives give absolutely no notice of the lives that “peace-keeping” cost Canadian Forces. Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on how utopian you are, Canada’s Forces are shedding the UN peace-keeping role.

The new reality is that Canadian forces are proving their worth in the sharp and often close quarter battles in Afghanistan. They lack essentials, such as close air support and rotary wing lift capability, but they are giving the Jihadist barbarians who once enslaved Afghanistan a kicking. Following the doctrine of most western armies, which is to be push back harder than you get pushed, Canadian forces are going out and confronting the Taliban and drug lords in their own back yard. They are entering battle zones that saw thousands of Russian forces go down in retreat or where desperate Russian commanders resorted to the use of chemical and nerve agents because they just simply couldn’t beat the locals. Our forces are walking the same trails and paths, and are winning. When most people, and many modern armies, run from the sound of guns, our guys head in.

The combat training of Canadian forces was, until Afghanistan, theoretical. In other words, nobody knew how well a Canadian volunteer military which had been saddled with the Peace-Keeping-Only role, would fare against indigenous fanatics which had been at war… forever. As it turns out, the grandchildren of Canada’s World War 2 Vets are proving to be as tenacious and able in combat as Grandpa. But, there is more.

Canada’s troops are trained to a level that was unthinkable by their grandfathers. The combat forces begin in basic training and from their the challenges and work only intensify, with training taking on the physical and mental sweat usually reserved for pro athletes. Canada’s combat arms are in fact, trained to a level higher than any commando forces were in their grandfather’s war. Then, to add complexity to the mix, they are taught not only to be effective killers of the enemy, but to also be preservers of civilian life. It’s a phenomenal challenge when fighting an enemy that gives goats more respect than civilians, but our troopers are rising to the challenge. And, for the first time in decades, these amazing volunteers are giving Canada back her place in the world as not only a voice for stability and peace, but as a country that won’t back away from a fight with barbarians.

The Canadian MSM is pilloried on these and many other blogs for it’s utopian slant. But, guess what? The Canadian MSM has been by and large overcome with admiration for our Canadian troopers. Readers would do themselves a favor to follow European coverage of the Afghan conflict. Virtually every op-ed and news piece is loaded with defeatism, hand-wringing, and NDP-esque moaning. The NATO forces of Europe seldom get the open and honest coverage that the Canadian MSM has been giving our troops and god forbid that a Euro-progressive would ever admire a NATO force. In other words, the Euro-press has taken its utopian attitudes towards America and the Iraq conflict, and is now superimposing them onto it’s own NATO forces, our Allies, in Afghanistan.

Canadians who feel squeamish about the Afghan conflict do have one important role to play, one which will be increasingly vital as the war on Islamo-fascism heats up. They will be needed to articulate the “progressive” side of things, for as much as conservative may despise them, “progressives” serve to keep dangerous nationalism based on military pride from becoming dangerous. Nationalism based on a country’s ability to kick-ass is hazardous, always, and we can be guaranteed that the “progressive” class will be out and about providing a dampening effect. Canadians are intelligent folks though, and they know when a fight is worth it and above all, being carried fought for altruistic and noble reasons. Ask our citizen soldiers in Afghanistan, and so far most seem to agree; Afghanistan is one fight worth being in. Ask the little Afghan girl attending school in the same town where her mother was reduced to animal status, and she’ll tell you our Canadian Heroes are her heroes as well.

Yahoo News has a great piece which describes the battle that claimed 3 Canadians lives: CLICK

With nine soldiers down, three of them dead, they knew they had to get out.

"Are you sure you guys want to do this?" the LAV platoon commander asked his fellow soldiers as they desperately pleaded to move in to save their brothers in arms.

No one who was there will reveal the identity of those who risked their lives by literally driving through a daisy chain of mines to reach their comrades. The actions of one should never overshadow the actions of many, they insist.

"Every one of the soldiers that were there can be proud of the way that they acted, with heroism and bravery and courage," said Tower.

"I don't want to take away from any one of them by trying to identify a specific soldier who outshone the rest," he explained.
"They're all heroes to us, and that's how they'd want to be thought of."

Canadians also need to understand, Tower stressed, that those who lost their lives that day were not unwilling participants. Everyone knew the risks of the six-month tour of duty.

"The soldiers that died weren't victims," he said. "They were fighting. And they were fighting for each other." "People at home should be proud of the quality of soldier that's over here."
 
I  believe that my Grandfathers on both sides of my family would express pride and admiration for the accomplishments of my Regiment in Afghanistan.  I can almost picture them in the legion branches they belonged to, speaking in the ever modest manner of that generation.  Understating their own accomplishments while giving accolades to us for the challenges we overcome. Think I'll go to a Legion tonight and listen to some stories.
 
Great blog... and I have to agree with it and Jay above. Both my grandfathers have expressed admiration for what we're doing in the Sandbox - one a 2WW vet, the other served from the mid-fifties through the early nineties.
 
This also echoes my grandfathers sentiments (A WWII/Korea Vet) ... his comments this past weekend:

"You kids serving today really are a bunch of tough nuts...dig in and get it done."
 
I think that looking back 100 years from now, things not going to be kind to the Baby Boomers- they'll likely be the one generation who were not there to answer when their country came calling.  (even if many individuals of that generation did).  All this business of "the Greatest Generation" on the part of the boomers has more to do with them realizing that their parents were right than a true tribute.  And the part that's going to bite is that their children will be the next "greatest generation"...

the only question is how much damage have the boomers caused to the underlying social fabric of the country during their time.
 
I've got to disagree with you on the Baby Boomer thoughts Echo9.

Being the generation that served voluntarily on the Cold War Front, they have shown their love of country as well. Don't hold it against a generation that a war didn't happen to occur during their "peaceful" tenure (especially one of the nuclear type).

The fact that they were willing to but didn't have to fight their expected war is not necessarily a bad thing.
 
Without trying to hijack,  We shouldn't be too hard on the baby boomers.  It can't have been easy growing up in the shadow of the Greatest Generation  nor was it easy living" under the shadow of the bomb"  All through my childhood in the eighties the world seemed always just on the edge of one war or another and I think my parents were just lucky a war didn't land in their lap.
 
I think the big thing for the Baby Boomers was the Cuba Misslie Crisis.  The world almost ended during that period.
 
There were many wars during their time that they could have been involved in, but chose not to. They could have supported South Vietnam, Rhodesia, Chechoslovakia, Israel, Tibet, etc. They could have insisted that the governments of the day do the Right Thing, and lend financial, political, and military support to those nations fighting against communism and terrorism.

They could have insisted that the governments of the day do the Right Thing, and NOT support dictators like Batista, Marcos, et al, or the various fascistic juntas. They could have demanded that steps be taken against the regimes in the Middle East, South and Central America, South-East Asia, and Africa.

They could have gone to war. They could have spoken up. They could have done the Right Thing.

But the Right Thing is hard.

Don't get me wrong. In no way do I mean to belittle the sacrifices of those who went before us, and taught us. If anything, I admire the soldiers of the 60's, 70's, and 80's for their willingness to cowboy up and do the Right Thing, even though it was manifestly unpopular. I don't blame the soldiers of those times, for events they had no control over.

But I do blame the previous generation for electing governments like Trudeau and Carter. For being quislings and appeasers. For leaving us their mess to clean up, and giving us a culture of spoiled children and a cult of the victim.
 
silentbutdeadly! said:
I think the big thing for the Baby Boomers was the Cuba Misslie Crisis.  The world almost ended during that period.

Well....There was Gary Powers.......then Hungry.......Czechoslovakia.......The odd crossing of the border during Fall Ex.......Berlin Wall tunnelling.......SMELM Cars........The Baader Meinhof Gang (RED ARMY FACTION)........Red Brigade.......IRA.......Anti-Nuke Protesters........

Those kept life in Germany interesting.
 
Thirty thousand Canadians served in the US Armed Forces during the Viet Nam era. Some were drafted, some volunteered.
 
GAP said:
Thirty thousand Canadians served in the US Armed Forces during the Viet Nam era. Some were drafted, some volunteered.
yup. we gave them 30-40 thousand of our best. They gave us 30-40 thousand cowards. Individual Canadians also served in the Rhodesian army, the Israeli Defence Forces, and several mercenary outfits in Africa (particularly Angola).

My point was, though, that Canadians shouldn't have had to enlist in the army of a foreign nation to do the Right Thing. There should have been Maple Leafs flying over FOBs in South Vietnam. There should have been empty Pilsner bottles, and empty .308 casings, scattered all over the continents of Asia, Africa, and South America. But too many Baby Boomers wanted to have it easy.
 
paracowboy said:
Individual Canadians also served in the Rhodesian army.

Sorry to take this off-topic to some extent - but there was a PPCLI Major getting his degree at RMC when I was a Cadet that had served in Rhodesia, I assume in the early 80s.
 
Re: baby boomers.

There isn't enough time or space here to adequately express the times, but I'll give it a quick shot. WWII wasn't a story in a history book for most of those in charge during the 50-70's, they lived through it. The Cold War wasn't a novel for me- it was as real as it gets. Can't speak for the rest of those I served with, but I honestly and truly believed that I'd spend some time in the Fulda gap. I also honestly believed that if I didn't do a good job, then my family would suffer a Soviet invasion. World domination was still very much in vogue in Communist countries back then. (non-related side note_ I still think it is in China)

I think Chamberlains "no war in our time" naiivety can be applied to the era- in much the same way that the horrors of the WW I (the war to end all wars) shaped opinion, WWII (and the potential for WWIII) scared the beejesus out of tptb. They spent a LOT of the GDP on war making. The smaller conflicts were an "aside"- the Soviet Union was the greatest threat to North America. Tough that so many others suffered, but in all honesty if I had to choose between another country suffering or mine- well, sucks to be them I guess.

The world was dominated and influenced globally by the two super power. They fought the majority of their wars through the satelite countries. It wasn't until Reagan realised that war making was won by the strongest economy that the Cold War finally reached a resolution. The ensuing downturn in Military spending (peace dividend) was applauded by the Civilian sector, as money for social programs was finally realised.

Hard to be altruistic, but my thoughts are still shaped by my life. If I didn't think that there was a real threat to my country in Afghanistan, (and much better to fight a war on the other guys turf!!) then I would very strongly oppose the war. Tough to say, but the whole danged country could burn up, and if it saved one Canadians life, then I'd be content. I value what our Forces do for us, and don't feel we should waste them. They're here to protect Canadian life, not the rest of the world's.

On the peacekeeping role- that's something "new". Canada has made war for most of it's existance- not as an agressor, but as a defender. Peacekeeping was a blip, and a real tough nut for our troops. I hope we do no more- of peacekeeping or warmaking....... but I fear the choice has been made for us already.

Ok, way off topic there.

Bottom line, the reluctance to make war between the end of WWII and now has been driven mainly by fear of sparking a global conflict. In a smaller way, much/many of the countries mentioned above as "needing saving" were, and are in a near constant state of turmoil  anyways. Maybe the value of a Candian's life, vs the value of another's life, were a little more distinct back then.

Again, our troops are in Afghanistan defending Canada- as an aside, they're defending the Afghan populace, and making their lives a little better. Nice by-product, but not reason enough to risk a Canadian soldier's life.

This attitude has been brought to you by a baby boomer. :)
 
What was the purpose of Canada's original role as 'peacekeeper" in 1956.. I'd say it was more in preventing the break-up of NATO.. remember, Who were the participants - Britain and France - who disapproved - the US. The peace-keeping job here was  more of a chance for France and Britian to disengage with honour intact and to keep NATO battered - yes - but intact. As to the role of peace-keeping - it is no different to that which follows every-war - couldn't the occupation of Eastern/Central Europe following the First World War be considered classic peace-keeping - indeed how about the garrisoning of India during the British Raj? "Peace-keeping" is just another aspect of soldiering - not the end-all and be-all.
As to comparison of the World War 2 Generation and the present one... Don't you all get sick of this nonsense of all folks from that generation being "heroes"? Save the term hero for the truly heroic - most just did their job, lots were just riders - some were just bums, and a minority were pure criminal - witness the goings-on in Naples - the black-marketing. Heroes are heroes - I'd rather be labled a fellow who just did his job - isn't that the reason for the dearth of glitter upon the chests of the Senior Service - the "how can you single out the one as all shared the danger? I myself would rather face a horde of on-coming tanks etc, than to sit in the propeller shaft  room of some warship oiling a bearing. yet that's what engine room artificers did - the guy who just did his job.
 
Perhaps my initial post on boomers was overly harsh.  There are all kinds of reasons for the way that our society developed from the end of WWII until today, and I recognize that you can't entirely strip those factors out.  I also should note that those who did contribute to national defence in those years probably deserve more credit, since they were doing it against the current of the times.

Ultimately, however, "to you from failing hands we throw the torch", and that torch was dropped.  A serious country does not allow its national defence to be eroded to the extent that Canada's has been.  That erosion did not really occur 1950-1970, when the WW2 generation was in charge (Canada's 1967 reorg was a little ahead of its time), but moreso in 1970-1995 (aside from Reagan's bump), when the boomers took over.  OK, they didn't take over themselves until later, but they were an important block of votes from around 70.


As an aside, I've heard an interesting interpretation that peacekeeping was essentially invented as economy of force operations in order to avoid decisive engagements in the parts of world that would take away from the ability to respond to initiation of war by the other superpower.  It makes sense, particularly when you consider that the real purpose of the UN was to avoid war between the superpowers. 
 
In terms of our foreign and defence policy I think 1968 (and the follow-on 1969 White Paper – A Foreign Policy for Canadians) was the nadir.  We gave up, threw in the towel, adopted a little Canada position, explicitly put aside St. Laurent’s leading middle power and Pearson’s helpful fixer policies and withdrew into our sacred social programmes and a culture of entitlement.

If the boomers were born between 1946 and what? 1960, then not very many of them voted in 1968 - when we elected the idiot who vandalized our foreign and defence policies.  A plurality of voters throughout the ‘50s, ‘60s and ‘70s were members of the World War II generation.

I would argue that the Great Depression had, at least, as important an impact on the political/social psyche of the Canadians who voted in the '50s and '60s as did World War II.
 
Got to say the original article is great. Kudos to everyone who serves, and is doing the hard thing oversea's. Good show, everyone.

I wonder if the comments about training exceeding WW2 commando training are true? My dad fought with 1 Can Para Bn when that was considered ultra-hard cutting edge warfare. (No, not implying para isn't tough stuff now!)

RE: the boomer comments:

If I recall rightly, the generation of politicians when I was in the CF were "greatest generation" age. They were the ones that could have sent me into harm's way but chose not to. They had lived through the Great Depression and WW2.

My generation served under GG generation leaders, but TODAY's political leaders are boomers - they are the ones showing an interest in taking on the bad guys. And today it's globally safer to do so, even with the terrorist NBC weapons threat.

Echo9, your point about that voting block of boomers is taken. I think the really powerful voting block didn't emerge until after you do, but that's not that important. More importantly, the time of boomers as heads of state and leaders of industry - makers of national/global policy - is still relatively young. Let's see what the next 20 years brings.
 
Back
Top