Competitions and Reserves question

[krugan]

Do the reserves compete in regional or national competitons for evaluation purposes?  How does the CF's judge how effective/prepared a unit is?

I've read where the Argylls (how many teams did the Argylls enter?) won a bronze in the International Cambrian Patrol competition which is quite impressive, but I was wondering if the CF's has their own competitions.

 

[westie47]

There are no patrol competetitions that I know of in the CF. We have the Mountain Man (a physical endurance race) and we have shooting competitions. I think we should have a patrol comp. I have been lobbying for years to get a team to the Cambrian but it's gone now where out here on the left coast.

 

[krugan]

westie47,

As is it now, how are reserve units able to evaluate their effectiveness and training if they have nothing to compare it too?

Would it not be good to have at least regional competitions and if there is a team that really stands out above all others, then shouldn't there be some kind of analysis to find out what they might be doing better and implement any kind of positive findings across the board with other units to improve the CF's overall effectiveness?

 

[pbi]

The Army Reserve and its "friends" bitterly fought the idea of formal unit evaluations when they were first proposed several years ago. At the time the idea of "evaluation" was seen by the Reserve as a nefarious plot by the Regular Force to get rid of units that didn't make the grade on the evaluation. Unfortunately, there actually was some of this thinking at work, under a concept known as "unit viability". This engendered all sorts of fear and loathing and gradually the idea of formal "evaluation" died away.

Here in LFWA we still require Army Reserve units to complete at least one annual exercise of their assigned mission element in which they are"assisted" by the Militia Training Support Centre based at WATC. MTSC, on request of the unit, sends out a team of officers and NCOs of the appropriate MOC who assess how well the mission element completes the particular BTS(s) in question, on a field exercise run by the unit, or in some cases by several units jointly or by the parent Bde. While the units are required to do this training, and most do it without too much trouble, there are no real consequences assigned to failure to perform. Nobody wants to go there just at the moment.

The BTS are drawn from those assigned to the unit by the parent Bde, originating from the Area Operating Plan. The MTSC team conducts the usual AAR process and it is through that the unit benefits. There is really no hard "pass/fail".

DGlad could give us some insightful comment on the system, having just completed beng CO of a Res unit.

On the patrol competition issue, as far as I know in our Army these are left to units or Bdes to run, even in the Regular Army. As far as the Cambrian goes, Reserve units are welcome to put in teams, amd some have. This year I believe some Res soldiers did  very well.

Here's an idea, though-how about our "own" Cambrian Cup-style competition?
Cheers.

 

[westie47]

This very idea was put to the comd 39 Bde two weeks ago. He stated it wouldn't be fair to the non-inf units! Well it was a non-inf unit from Vancouver that went to the Cambrian 4 years ago(BCR) that I helped train. I think a brigade comp would be excellent.  I guess the problem comes down to who wants to put in the time and effort.  I have found that if you approach higher with awell-though out plan they are more likely to give it the old rubber stamp treatment than if they had to make the plan themselves. However I am but a lowly sergeant. An officer in our unit is trying to plan a miniature mountain man if you will for our unit.  I've encouraged him to open it up to the brigade.

 

[desjardins]

there should be some sort of a navigation competition too, this past weekend my unit (LSSR) had an intra-regiment navigation competition where each team had to reach a certain number of points on a map by a deadline. at each point each individual team recieved a letter, by reaching all of the points by the deadlines they had a set of letters. these letters then needed to be organized into a word at the end. this tested the troops endurance and also their minds. the officer who organized the event  wanted to see if the troops were thinking because the letters didnt make any specific word, they actually ended up being the entire alphabet. events like this would be nice to see if they were organized between reserve units because it really tests the abilities of the soldiers.

 

[Bartok5]

The Directorate of Army Training (DAT) is busy developing a Canadian Patrol Competition as we speak.   This formal competition has the direct blessing of the CLS.   If I recall correctly, the premise is that Reg and Res F Brigades will conduct their own internal competitions to select a single team which then proceeds to the national competition (location TBC).   Participation of the Reg and REs F Bde-level teams in the national competition will supposedly be funded by the Land Staff.   Think "Canadian Cambrian" and you will have a good idea of where we are headed.   I don't recall whether or not the Canadian Patrol Competition will be open to foreign participation, but I strongly suspect that it will.

Anyone with an inside connection at DAT Infantry is welcome to provide further information and correct anything incorrect that I have said.   MY comments are based on a DAT briefing note that I read several months ago, and my memory is imperfect at the best of times....

Edited to add that a primary impetus for the Canadian Patrol Competition is to address the perceived inequity of only certain units being able to participate in Cambrian Patrol.  The idea is to provide a level competitive field that ALL Reg and Res F units can participate in, at least up to Brigade level.  Beyond that, it is best team from each Brigade competing at the national level.   

 

[zerhash]

every now and again you will have regiments challenge other regiments to different things that dont have much to do with their jobs, but their physical fitness

i know the qy rangs are taking part in the Rogers Challenge, where they patrol 36km with stands training and such.

 

[Bomber]

33 Brigade has the annual Mil Skills Competition that has run for three years now.  Consists of General Mil Knowledge test, c7 Shoot, First aid, Night shoot, night evasion/nav, forced march, weapon assembly, and assault boat crossings.  Also a stretcher carry that had to be seen to be believed.  Ask your chain to see if they can submit a team for the competion next year.  There were 26 teams this year and it was won by the SD&G Highlanders

 

[pbi]

The Directorate of Army Training (DAT) is busy developing a Canadian Patrol Competition as we speak.

MarkC: this is a great idea. I recall the District Patrol Competition when I was a Reserve soldier: we took it very seriously and worked hard to get ready for it. I think that something like this would achieve three things:

-help get RegInf back onto some skills that I rather suspect are getting neglected due to op tempo (I stand ready to be corrected on this);

-help develop these vital skills in Res Inf (skills that are useful in many other types of ops); and

-engender healthy competition and better mutual respect between Reg and Res Inf soldiers.

I look forward to seeing this happen: we should definitely invite our Allies to participate. Cheers.

 

[AmmoTech90]

When I was in the Comm Res we participated in the Malloch Trophy each year.  It involved a unit inspection during the week and evaluation of weekend exercise.  I believe each Comm Reserve unit was inspected, but the competition may have only be between units of similar sizes (Tp, Sqn, Regt) I'm not sure.  But the trophy was awarded to the best overall unit, I believe the inspectors travelled across country.

Anyone know if the Malloch still exists?

 

[foerestedwarrior]

The Directorate of Army Training (DAT) is busy developing a Canadian Patrol Competition as we speak.

MarkC: this is a great idea. I recall the District Patrol Competition when I was a Reserve soldier: we took it very seriously and worked hard to get ready for it. I think that something like this would achieve three things:

-help get RegInf back onto some skills that I rather suspect are getting neglected due to op tempo (I stand ready to be corrected on this);

-help develop these vital skills in Res Inf (skills that are useful in many other types of ops); and

-engender healthy competition and better mutual respect between Reg and Res Inf soldiers.

I look forward to seeing this happen: we should definitely invite our Allies to participate. Cheers.

You forgot to mention, it would promote a much better level of physical fitness than exists now.

 

[PuckChaser]

When I was in the Comm Res we participated in the Malloch Trophy each year.  It involved a unit inspection during the week and evaluation of weekend exercise.  I believe each Comm Reserve unit was inspected, but the competition may have only be between units of similar sizes (Tp, Sqn, Regt) I'm not sure.  But the trophy was awarded to the best overall unit, I believe the inspectors travelled across country.

Anyone know if the Malloch still exists?

Not sure if it does, but there are now 2 Mil Skills competitions being run each training year, in various locations across the country. The first one, was run in Aldershot, and had NBCD, C7, kit inspection, forced march, obstacle course, Enviro protection, and vehicle driving. All of this being done with almost strangers, as the teams were mixed when we arrived. Was an excellent event, hopefully I will get to go again in April to Farnham, QC.