Concerns about the recruiting forum

[Ergotracer]

I’m quite disheartened by ongoing sparring matches displayed on this site, most notably the lack of regard to concerns expressed by newcomers posting in the recruiting sections.  Though in some cases responses can seem a bit hot under the collar, I don't blame the reactions at all especially after reading comments such as “claim to be in university” and “stubborn 18 year old” or “we have better things to do than spoon feed the lazy”. I’m not sure what can be done about the hierarchy presence but commentary such as these, DO solicit antagonized responses and should warrant challenges to such personal attacks, unnecessary use of name-calling, and unjustifiable assumptions.  It does NOT mean that if individuals “cannot function here…you are unlikely to be able to function in the CF”.  Though the aforementioned quote represents one person’s view – it’s necessary to toss the proverbial ball back and reiterate the point of  “Guess what - it reflects the CF”.  We all have a responsibility keeping this site functioning effectively and in a collegial manner, unfortunately the utilization of this site might be perceived as adversarial to newcomers and this is not the image I want to portray.   

ET

 

[McG]

Ergotracer,
I won't address specifics as I cannot see the specific sources of your quotes.  In some cases, a stern rebuke is not out of order.  However, in general, you are correct.  While we can continue to expect a minimum effort/content from site participants, proper tone must go both ways. When you see posts of this nature that concern you, then I encourage you to employ the "Report to moderator" link at the bottom right corner of each post.

 

[RHFC_piper]

I don't mean to defend any attacks on newcomers, but I want you to realize why this attitude is prevalent when people first post here;

There are countless pages of information about every aspect of the Canadian Forces here... especially recruiting.  Every possible question has be given a response. And those left unanswered are so because the staff and members here are, for the most part, officially unqualified to answer (medical questions).

So, where does this attitude come from?  Well, the theory is; if a members displays laziness on forums, you will carry that laziness to the CF. 

I somewhat agree with this theory, to an extent... In that there is a lot of information available and it's not hard to find, yet the same questions are asked again and again daily... which is annoying to everyone, consumes bandwidth and server space and, as mentioned above, displays laziness. 

Also, please keep in mind; this is a private site; meaning it has no official affiliation to the CF and is owned and operated by a private citizen... which, essentially means, the DS and the owner/operator, doesn't have to cater or pander to anyone for any reason.  If they wanted to arbitrarily ban people for "stupid" questions, that is their prerogative  .

When a new poster comes on to a privately run sight, displays laziness by not searching, then persistence of ignorance by fighting with the DS, and continues with attitude, there is no doubt why the DS has snappy and rude retorts sometimes.  Keep in mind, this isn't the case all the time, but the rule of thumb usually is; new members dictate the attitude they receive. 

I'm not even DS and I've had to sort people out due to their argumentative nature.  Which is another big issue with new members; If someone here, especially DS, who have been on for a while, passes on information, they're not pulling it out of their ***... A lot of people here have a lot of EXP and TI... and for the most part, we don't spout off on stuff we don't have a clue about.  So arguing is fruitless.

Anyway, as I've said, I'm not trying to defend the incident, I'm just trying to point out the reasons. 

 

[MedTechStudent]

If new members actually read that long list of guide lines we would not have these problems at all IMO.

I think its as simple as that.  Know why I think that?  Cause when I was a new member I didn't read them either and I learned the hard way.  If I could go back I certainly would have taken the time to read them and avoid myself the trouble.

Cheers, Kyle

 

[George Wallace]

If I may, I can answer some of the questions arising for EG's unattributed quotes, as most seem to be directed at me.  First off, as EG "claims to be a university student" and attended an institution of higher learning, the rest of us on the internet do not know this as a fact as none of us hold her official University Transcripts in our hands.  That is a fact.  The next quote was in direct quote to a post:

....... However, as a stubborn 18 year old kid ...............

Many have already replied to the amount of time that has already been taken up on answering questions over and over again, ad nauseum, but none have mentioned the fact that this non-CF, privately owned site is not being run off of some Super computer with a infinite amount of memory.  Do you expect us to constantly answer the same few questions over and over, or have the memory to answer hundreds of other topics and have room for other discussions as they arise?  Your options.

I suppose someone could reply to your concerns, with some of the common responses heard throughout the the Armed Forces over their several hundred years history, but I am sure you would be offended if they did.  Yes, many of the posters here do ultimately reflect on the CF.  It is a mean, nasty, dirty and evil world that many of them have had to live in and still do, doing many things that most Canadians naively living in the safety of their homes have no concept of.  A world that is impossible to honestly portray in print.  You either live it or you don't.  BTDT is something that most Serving and Former Members have that unites them in bonds that those who have never BTDT can never know.  The road to BTDT can be a hard one for new members.

If one feels that the site is sometimes "too harsh" on people, perhaps they have come to the wrong place.  On the other hand, some learn from that, and in turn, evolve into people who will survive in harsher environments.

I suppose it may be a good time to ask some of our recent graduates off of BMQ, SQ and PLQ whether or not that NCO yelling at them, spraying spit in their face, really was making it "Personal" or not? 

 

[Ergotracer]

Hello Mr. Wallace,

I’m not sure how my credentials came into play or how on earth it's relevant to the issues at hand. But since you feel the need to personalize matters allow me humor you anyways by introducing myself and by saying I'm the next global leader of tomorrow and I can think for myself.  Like it or not from my standpoint, your behavior towards a potential recruit while understandable at times was nonetheless inexcusable in the manner you presented yourself on this forum.

…“Yes, many of the posters here do ultimately reflect on the CF. It is a mean, nasty, dirty and evil world that many of them have had to live in and still do, doing many things that most Canadians naively living in the safety of their homes have no concept of”…

Hmmm…I believe I’ve heard this line before. You may want to revisit “A Few Good Men” as C. Jessop speech didn’t come off glowing with inspiration.

Let me remind you that the context here is front-end whereby your role could ideally be best utilized by offering non-offensive advice to those seeking a career with the CF using this forum as a resource. I have very little doubt that much can be accomplished by way of CF preparation by your remarks to those people who are not in a position to defend themselves. I'm perplexed at why you assigned yourself the role of preparing people to expect the worst (based on your last post). I appreciated the additional insight from the other posters. They got it but your reply was quite transparent and defensive.  I obviously created some excitement and so should you have any other comments, please use pm. 

ET

 

[GAP]

George.....be nice....you're upsetting the poor fellow.......and we just can't have that....... :

 

[George Wallace]

Hello Mr. Wallace,

I’m not sure how my credentials came into play or how on earth it's relevant to the issues at hand.

I'm sorry you missed the relevance of the example and explanation. 

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Ergotracer,
  Should you have a problem with a thread there is always the Report to Moderator function at the bottom right hand corner of every post. Should you have a problem with any of the DS Mike bobbitt is generally just an IM away.

 

[MedTechStudent]

But since you feel the need to personalize matters

I'm sorry I feel I have to point out that this entire post was a personal attack considering most if not all of your quotes are from a single person.  Did you learn the theory of hypocrisy in post secondary?

That is all.

Kyle

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

and since this thread is spiralling downwards. Locked with usual caveats!

Milnet.Ca Staff

 

[armyvern]

I’m quite disheartened by ongoing sparring matches displayed on this site, most notably the lack of regard to concerns expressed by newcomers posting in the recruiting sections.  Though in some cases responses can seem a bit hot under the collar, I don't blame the reactions at all especially after reading comments such as “claim to be in university” and “stubborn 18 year old” or “we have better things to do than spoon feed the lazy”. I’m not sure what can be done about the hierarchy presence but commentary such as these, DO solicit antagonized responses and should warrant challenges to such personal attacks, unnecessary use of name-calling, and unjustifiable assumptions.  It does NOT mean that if individuals “cannot function here…you are unlikely to be able to function in the CF”.  Though the aforementioned quote represents one person’s view – it’s necessary to toss the proverbial ball back and reiterate the point of  “Guess what - it reflects the CF”.  We all have a responsibility keeping this site functioning effectively and in a collegial manner, unfortunately the utilization of this site might be perceived as adversarial to newcomers and this is not the image I want to portray.   

ET

Sorry for posting over the lock ...

But, if you want to cite examples of "mis-use" of the (apparently rude) "SEARCH!!!" response, please pick a better candidate. I'd also like to point out that many members here actually do step in to assist new users with searchs etc - it helps the site work better ... and sometimes avoids the mods eventually chiming in with a "search!!". Then again, some members don't - and leave it up to a mod or someone else to come into a thread and help a new site member. 

WRT your "stubborn 18 year old" ... here you go:

I apologize if this has been posted already, but certain types of surgery have been approved for aspiring pilots, who in the past did not meet the vision requirements...

I apologize if this question has been asked before, but I'm new to the forum thing, and didn't find any answers to my question...

Those were his 5th & 6th posts ...

Post 7 is a rant.

Post 8 is:

...

Before I get yelled at for not searching, I apologize if the answers to my questions have indeed been asked before and if you'd like to yell at me to use search, can you at least point me in the right direction? A helpful link maybe?

Thanks,

Justin

(A helpful link maybe?? How about typing a keyword of what you're looking for into the "search" bar? There's even a thread on the site that tells on in detail how to utilize the search function to their greatest advantage ... ) It's stickied -- right up on the first page of the "Admin Board" so that it's easy to find if you're a new member:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/59495.0.html

So, I'm quite sure you can now see why we DS are sometimes quick to use the "SEARCH!!!" comment with some new users. Granted, it may be less offensive to you should we never get short with pers who precede every post with "sorry if this is answered here somewhere" etc, but essentially ... when that occurs - there is a reason for it.

Sorry that it happens to offend your sensibilities. Sometimes a review of the persons posting history may reveal to you the reasoning behind the action of the mod. Just a thought.

Justin C went on to explain himself, finally got what he was looking for, and seems to be doing just fine now.

Perhaps you too can now carry on?

ArmyVern