Cornwallis Vs. St Jean

[17thRecceSgt]

Oh see I thought we were ALL joking with our comments after Cdn Royal's ( I didn't see any black and blue recruits that wasn't caused by...other recruits or the obstacle course or PT) and was just going on with it...and so was 211RadOp I thought.

Guess we forgot the  ;D, my bad.

MRM

 

[Popurhedoff]

I went through in 79' ... I never witnessed beatings from the instructors, but I witnessed my share of "Blanket parties" , "Barrack Box Drops from the top bunk",  punch outs and general ass whoopins amongst ourselves.  We sorted ourselves out... thieves got to visit the  infirmary before leaving for good... shit disturbers got re adjusted... many became awesome troops  afterwards etc

The physical work was hard... the PERI staff were circuit training Nazi's (LOL)  and I could not believe how many push ups I could do in a single day  I was out in Granville in the winter... so we wore all our winter kit.. and the 10 mile run back with those freakin over boots was awesome... "Heartbreak Hill" all full of snow and mud.... the obstacle course frozen...  yep them were the days.  You either finished or you didn't.    No excuses... you had to earn it.

There is no comparison between the two schools... and I'll leave it at that.

Cheers
Pop

P.S.  I am still in and I run almost everyday with my Rucksack ... no excuses

 

[Rodahn]

Shoulda tried going through in '71 ;D

I'm guessing that recceguy and myself had our first charges in the military in Cornwallis... For dust in our caves....... Seriously Recce... Where did you get the CFR # of my first Deuce and a Half?????

 

[a78jumper]

Long before it became a CF institution, St Jean was the basic recruit training centre for the RCAF. My aunt (had dinner with her last night-still feisty at 79) went through there in 1956 and boy does she have stories.

Not having quite read all seven pages of this soldiers, airmen and sailors have compared what it was like when they went through training with others since the beginning of time. At RMC it was "When I was a Rook" stories. Someone always had it harder....

 

[SKIN052]

Went through Cornwallis in 91 Course number 9135, 9 platoon. Beatings were a no-no but the instructor sure had one hell of a steel finger he would jab in my chest every chance he got. Sure has hell made me a tougher man for it in the end. It was a horrible, horrible time that I will never forget. But I am very glad and proud that I did it. 

 

[Amos]

I went through CFRS Cornwallis in 1982 (Jan-Mar) course 8201, 15 Platoon  :warstory: , the best!    I remember the first night lying on my bunk and saying "what in the hell am I doing here"  I remember my squad M/Cpl meeting us at the Halifax airport and directing us to our bus....everybody pretty respectable at the time.....bus ride to Cornwallis was calm and quiet....but once we entered through the gates of the CFRS....all hell broke loose!  >  Thank-you M/Cpl Rolson and Sgt Tchetz for the great training, what an experience!  I  you!    :soldier:
Pte(W) Amos!

 

[17thRecceSgt]

I went through CFRS Cornwallis in 1982 (Jan-Mar) course 8201, 15 Platoon  :warstory: , the best!    I remember the first night lying on my bunk and saying "what in the hell am I doing here"   

And all these years I thought I was the only one that happened too!   ;D

Actually I think that crossed my mind when "Mr White"  (well, he was a MCpl but I didn't know that so I was polite and called him Mr White) was screaming in my face for calling him...Mister... 8)

 

[bison33]

Good old Cornwallis........yep...'82 was a good year....no human rights act yet, so needless to say, it was common to get a pace stick across the back of the legs (and that's if they liked you!) and various things tossed at you....and having your kit tossed out the window. Our first weekend at the G&G was a good one, scrapping with a fish head platoon right next door to us (we were about half arty/armoured with a few eme tossed in). After grad, we had another 2 days in the barracks so we decided to do barrack box racing. Our crse WO (WO Boltor, a not so nice PPCLI type) came in to check on us and he lost it. Stripping and waxing the rest of the weekend. But it was a blast there. And way too many push-ups for calling a M/Bdr a M/Cpl :

 

[canadianblue]

And now 13 years later full circle I'm the instructor, no swearing, no waxing floors, civy cleaners, allowed out in week 4, with civies, PSP, Ipods, cell phones you name it they get it, and instructors cant do anything about it.  Well here in Borden anyway, but that is a completely different post altogether, and boy there would be a lot of ranting and raving, but I digress, in my opinon, and only mine, Cornwallis was far superior, to St Jean, and Borden.  I was in the very last course of Cornwallis, no parade for us, the course before us got all the glory.

Sorry to question you, but I don't remember anyone using cellphones, PSP's, or much of any technology unless they had the weekend off. As well I got sweared at plenty as did many other recruits that went through and this was last year. As for civie cleaners, we had some but usually on week 6 a platoon has to do duties such as cleaning and working at the Bistro. I never found BMQ to be easy, far from it, but the experience is one that I'll remember for the rest of my life.

 

[STONEY]

Went thru Cornwallis 61/62 when it was a Navy only recruit school .  We did 17 weeks in basic and i don't remember that there but a handfull that didn't hate it or find it tough, but when we graduated we certainly felt a sense of acomplishement .  The base was packed , with all barracks loaded to the hilt, my division was in an old H hut that hadn't been used for years . Our divisional instructors were all senior NCO's ( we had a CPO2 (PT) & PO1 BOSN) permanently assigned . The Junior instructor at recruit centre was a PO2.  Recruits were never to walk at any time , even going to the canteen in the evening we had to move at the double. When we arrived on base recruits were issued some basic work clothes,  then told to strip naked and put every personal piece of gear including toilet kit into a cardboard box
and address it to our mothers . We were told if the Navy wanted us to have anything we would be issued it.
        As far as toughness of training over the passing of time just remember that if you just take a look at the worlds elite units , French Foreign, Royal Marines, Seals, Delta ,SAS, US Marines & Rangers ETC. all have the toughest training , and the poorest units are the one's with the poorest disipline and training also have the porrest morale.  Hard training builds pride in one's self  and his or her unit.

Amen   

 

[Gnr_Harrison]

I went through St Jean and it was fairly easy i got to call my wife every night on the pay phone.  We didn'tèt get to have cell phones or any of that other stuff. Yes we got to have weekend 4 off and even got a three day weekend in the middle of the course. After getting to my unit and talking to higher ups and learning about CCornwallis I bbe leaveI had it way to easy.  But after talking to people that just went through a year ago I think that it just keep getting easier!! I bbe leaveit should get hard because of the place the CF is going and of the things we are doing!! I think the BMQ is just not hard enough anymore and people are not ready for the career ahead of them! I also find that it makes for lazy soldiers...

Thanks for listing

 

[canadianblue]

I disagree with the comment that it makes for lazy soldiers. You don't get many breaks during BMQ with the exception of the weekend, or maybe half an hour at night. I found that for the first few weeks. It's not BMQ that'll make a member lazy, thats what PRETC is for!!!

 

[Gnr_Harrison]

I am sorry that you feel that way. But i think if you ask people that did a BMQ 5 years ago conpared to a year ago you will find that the BMQ is getting easier and easier.  You will find that in other courses to such as the SQ, if you do your SQ in Meaford compared to SQ in Gagetown. Alot of people are taking the CF as a job but it isn't a job it is a life style! I f you take it as a job then it makes for a lazy soldierand one that doesn't care about the work he or she does. thoughs are just my feelings.

 

[Neill McKay]

But i think if you ask people that did a BMQ 5 years ago conpared to a year ago you will find that the BMQ is getting easier and easier.

Something tells me you could have made that statement any time in the last eighty years and it would have been equally true.

But my favourite quote on the subject remains "The navy ain't like it used to be -- and it never was, either!"

 

[orange.paint]

This may be moving a little bit away from the subject but I want to add in my view on a similar topic.
I went through St.Jean 7 yrs ago.The part I found difficult was being sumurged into a group of people you didn't know coming from all around the country.Having been from a small town it was a new experience for sure.

Watching people marching around had me in awe,they looked like robots.Leaning on the front desk to sign into basic I quickly realised that in the army you didn't lean on stuff(MCPL).Mealtimes and bathroom breaks were scheduled which didn't happen in rural Newfoundland.In 17 years I had never been away from my family for more than 3 weeks,10 seemed at that time an eternity.
When you called someone the wrong name they didn't just correct you by saying my name is Steve.They screamed that "they were not a f*ing master seamen it was master corporal."The only time I came close to quiting was when I had to sew my name on everything.I can recall thinking "I haven't touched a gun yet and I'm sitting here sewing my freaking name on stuff!"Makes sense now but not at that time.

Then I went to battle school in Meaford.A DS staff slept on the floor with us for the first 4 weeks,to keep stress level/cock level high at night.PT was harder,but we were learning new things and I actually found it easier as now I could march,and had a little army background.Things like schedules now seemed normal.However the level of stress seemed much higher there.We didn't get out for the first 6 weeks.And rain or shine we did PT.It was too icy to do a rucksack march out in the training area so we walked in circles on the parade square for an hour.Battle school was intense in many different ways that I wont get into.

However my main point is IT'S ALWAYS MORE DIFFICULT WHEN IT'S YOU!Something else is to realise some  of these kids haven't been away from mommy and daddy (i.e myself at 17) before.10 weeks seems like nothing to a seasoned member but to a fresh civi 10 weeks may seem like a lifetime.

Now on DP1 training they are allowed out every night,unless scheduled training is implemented at night.They just sign out in the book and go get McDonald's.First weekend is usually off (this one was) and if they pass inspections they are usually out fulltime by week 4 (IIRC).They are taught half the course by civilians.

I think basic compared to 7 years ago is still pretty well on par with now.However the DP1 training has greatly decreased.

 

[Jungle]

In my opinion, this discussion is completely futile; who cares how difficult Cornwallis was 20 years ago ?? Those who went to Cornwallis have no idea what it was like in St-Jean 20 years ago... but comparing what Basic was 20 years ago with what it is today is ridiculous. It is  like pretending that society has not evolved, and that young people have not changed in 20 years !! Get real !!

From my own recent experience as an instructor at CFLRS, the majority of youths today have never been camping, hunting, fishing, canoeing; the vast majority have not been alone in the woods at night. Most are physically inactive, and some are overweight.
This is the raw product that comes in to Basic. You cannot expect the same results after 10 weeks (or 13 now) that we got 20 years ago.

For what it's worth, the vast majority of young people now fighting in Afghanistan have been trained in the system of the last 10 years; some as recently as less than 2 years ago. And they are doing a marvellous job !!

 

[PMedMoe]

I think it's already been said that EVERYONE feels they had it harder than anyone else.  The whole point of Basic Trg is NOT to teach you how to be a soldier (someone whining about sewing on name tags and never touching a gun).  It was to teach you discipline and teamwork!  Basic is SUPPOSED to be stressful because if you can't hack it there, do you think you'll make it in Afghanistan?
My problem with young privates lately is that they don't have ANY respect for higher ranks.    Not to mention, most of them can't do drill worth spit!!    We had new people show up at my former unit who had NEVER done a rucksack march, let alone run 5kms.  In Cornwallis, if you couldn't do the PT required because of an injury, you were recoursed. Is St Jean too easy? I think so.
Just my 2 cents.
Cornwallis, Crse 8645, 10 PL.

 

[Scott57]

For what it's worth, the vast majority of young people now fighting in Afghanistan have been trained in the system of the last 10 years; some as recently as less than 2 years ago. And they are doing a marvellous job !!

Couldn't have said it better.

As far as recruits showing up at the Unit never having done a ruck march or, not being able to do a 5K run ...personally, I don't recall too many ruck marches (in fact - zero) or very many 5 K runs occurring in Cornwallis when I went through (1975). In fact, the only PT I recall was circuit trg/ swimming tests/ and the mandatory (one time) 1.5 mile run under 12 minutes. When I reported into Calgary, I had never done a ruck march and, had never ran further then 1.5 miles. Was it right -  no. But .. different time/ place and standards. At the end of the day (or my career) - I was proud of the fact that I could lead my troops on a 7 or 8 KM run at the age of 48 - something that I could not do when I reported to work in Calgary at the age of 18.