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Creating a canteen

Crispy Bacon

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Is there any reference on how to create a unit canteen?

I've heard plenty of stories on canteens "being shut down" but never why they were shut down or how they got started in the first place.

A few of us are interested in starting a small canteen with some pop, chips, chocolate bars, etc.  The funds raised would be held by the canteen manager and used to subsidize unit events (e.g. sports days).

Any references would be great!
 
Crispy Bacon said:
Is there any reference on how to create a unit canteen?

I've heard plenty of stories on canteens "being shut down" but never why they were shut down or how they got started in the first place.

A few of us are interested in starting a small canteen with some pop, chips, chocolate bars, etc.  The funds raised would be held by the canteen manager and used to subsidize unit events (e.g. sports days).

Any references would be great!

Canteens and their operations are governed by NPF Regulations (ie; PSP).  Once you see what the requirements are, you will quickly forget about doing this.

Good luck!
 
DAA said:
Canteens and their operations are governed by NPF Regulations (ie; PSP).  Once you see what the requirements are, you will quickly forget about doing this.

Yet another shining example of how nearly everything PSP touches turns to lead.

(Messes, canteens, Falls Lake cottages & campground...the list goes on...)
 
Pray tell, what was wrong with the old regs on Canteens that this entity felt needed fixing?  The idea of canteens has only been around for a couple of hundred years.
 
Colin P said:
Pray tell, what was wrong with the old regs on Canteens that this entity felt needed fixing?  The idea of canteens has only been around for a couple of hundred years.

PSP needs to get their hands involved in everything.

 
ObedientiaZelum said:
PSP needs to get their hands involved in everything.

Not to mention, they want a piece of the "pie" or at least some of the crumbs.......
 
The problem is that we treat a unit canteen, with $100 of inventory and annual sales around $500 as being the same as a mess with thousands of dollars in inventory and six figures in sales & mess dues.


In other words, we waste dollars to save pennies.
 
Occam said:
Yet another shining example of how nearly everything PSP touches turns to lead.

(Messes, canteens, Falls Lake cottages & campground...the list goes on...)

Thread hijack:  what PSP-related grief surrounds Falls lake?  I am hoping to take my ship's coy up there in June.  Any idea what issues I need to be prepared for?

Cheers
 
DAA said:
Not to mention, they want a piece of the "pie" or at least some of the crumbs.......

Just like the Community Access Card (CAC) scam.



Crispy Bacon, you might think it may just be easier to drop $100 on supplies you buy at national Grocer and then sell them for a bit of a profit all on your own . Don't. NPF Storm Troopers will come after you like a hungry bear if they get wind of it.
 
DAA said:
Canteens and their operations are governed by NPF Regulations (ie; PSP).  Once you see what the requirements are, you will quickly forget about doing this.

Good luck!

Frankly, I don't see why it's any of their business.

If I have 10 chocolate bars and want to give them away, what's to stop me?
If I have 10 chocolate bars and I want to sell them for $1 each, what's to stop me?
If I sell 10 chocolate bars for $1 each and I want to use that $10 to buy the unit a basketball, what's to stop me?

This is why I'm looking for a specific reference: to see exactly what (they say) we can and cannot do.
 
MARS said:
Thread hijack:  what PSP-related grief surrounds Falls lake?  I am hoping to take my ship's coy up there in June.  Any idea what issues I need to be prepared for?

Cheers

Frank

Probably nothing that you need to worry about at this point.  When the facility was first taken over by CFB Halifax, it was managed by a retired Navy Chief, who ran the place like a tight ship.  They had sailors tripping over each other to volunteer for weekend work parties to fix buildings, clear brush, and just general labour.  The place was booked solid most of the time with people making very favourable reports on the facility.

When PSP took over, the old Navy Chief was pushed out by a bean counter who promptly raised the cottage and camping prices through the roof, ended the "reward" program for volunteer work parties, and basically turned the place on its ear.  Occupancy rates dropped like a rock because it was no longer priced attractively to compete with similar facilities.

I'm not sure what it's like now, but it had potential to be a real gem in the crown of the Navy.  I'd be curious to know if it ever reached that status.
 
Crispy Bacon said:
Frankly, I don't see why it's any of their business.

If I have 10 chocolate bars and want to give them away, what's to stop me?
If I have 10 chocolate bars and I want to sell them for $1 each, what's to stop me?
If I sell 10 chocolate bars for $1 each and I want to use that $10 to buy the unit a basketball, what's to stop me?

This is why I'm looking for a specific reference: to see exactly what (they say) we can and cannot do.

PSP Policies - https://www.cfmws.com/en/AboutUs/Library/PoliciesandRegulations/PSP/Pages/default.aspx

Search the top two documents for "canteen".
 
Yikes!
Twits should have put thresholds on sales to certain polices.



As I recall the CCG rules were basically no more than 10% above costs for goods sold in the Canteen

The icebreakers made a killing in the Arctic selling pop and goodies for basically down south prices

All I could find
Non-Public Funds Activities: by
- directing and controlling the operation of the ship's canteen;
- approving the purchase of all items for sale in the canteen;
- purchasing and controlling bonded stores in accordance with Canada Customs Regulations;
- selecting, directing, supervising and training canteen personnel;
- ensuring adequate security and control of canteen and bonded stocks and cash holdings;
- establishing and maintaining auditable consolidated financial accounts for the ship's canteen,
Officers' Mess and Recreation and Welfare Fund;
- preparing financial statements on a quarterly basis including Balance Sheet, Statement of Operations
and Statement of Revenue and Expenditure;
http://acoc-acco.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/SO-eng.pdf
- performing the duties of the secretary-treasurer of the Recreation and Welfare Committee.
 
Occam said:
PSP Policies - https://www.cfmws.com/en/AboutUs/Library/PoliciesandRegulations/PSP/Pages/default.aspx

Search the top two documents for "canteen".

Judging by the first document, I'm not sure even they understand what a canteen is:

Canteen: an NPP activity that is not part of CANEX, is run by full or part-time staff, has
posted hours of operations, purchases at wholesale and sells at retail, and collects and
remits tax.

To me, that sounds like a cafeteria or corner store; not a Cpl on a TCAT who wants to sell some pop and chips for a few months while he's on light duties (which is typically who staffs a canteen).
 
Crispy Bacon said:
Judging by the first document, I'm not sure even they understand what a canteen is:

To me, that sounds like a cafeteria or corner store; not a Cpl on a TCAT who wants to sell some pop and chips for a few months while he's on light duties (which is typically who staffs a canteen).

I think what you're after is, according to their definitions, a coffee fund.  Different rules, but I don't see them in their policies other than in the definitions.  I think you'll want to call your local PSP office and ask them what the rules are for a coffee fund.
 
Crispy Bacon said:
Judging by the first document, I'm not sure even they understand what a canteen is:

To me, that sounds like a cafeteria or corner store; not a Cpl on a TCAT who wants to sell some pop and chips for a few months while he's on light duties (which is typically who staffs a canteen).

You want to look in CFP 110 for the guidelines.  I believe that the "threshold" is something like $100.00 in sales per year.  What's to stop you from doing this?  Simple, your CO.  A "Canteen" is definied as "Canteen – an NPP activity that is not part of CANEX, is run by full or part-time staff, has posted hours of operations, purchases at wholesale and sells at retail, and collects and remits tax."  Oh and YES, you do have to collect "TAX" and also account for and remit that as part of the operation.

You can set it up.  But at some point in time, PSP or your local Compt Office will get wind of it, they always do and then your CO will be called to task and asked why a Canteen is being operated within their unit lines and who authorized it.

So unless you want to do it by the book, it's pretty much not worth the effort.  I have belonged to units/sections that ran "small" canteens, selling coffee, pop, chips, etc.  That was until the Canteen Police shut it down.

And just what was it that created this downward spiral you ask?

"2602.5 Unregulated Activities and Internal Competition. A 1997 Chief of Review Services audit found that a significant number of re-sale outlets (Unit canteens, wet canteens and „stand easys‟) were operating outside the bounds of departmental policy. They were neither operating IAW the rules and regulations governing public and NPP support for military activities nor were they in compliance with the departmental provision of services policy (DNDP 55). In January 1998, the CDS directed that all activities that take place on Bases / Wings / Units are to be conducted as part of the Defence Services Program within the Public accountability framework, or as a properly authorized NPP activity as part of a national NPP program (such as CANEX, SISIP FS) or under the Base / Wing / Unit Fund, mess or museum and accounted for within the NPP accountability framework. Any other activities were to cease (e.g. Unit canteens). At the same time, the CDS directed that internal NPP competition was to be minimized, that is, NPP entities were not to establish programs and activities in competition with other, existing or national NPP programs and activities. It is important that an appropriate balance be struck between serving our members and generating revenue so that Base / Wing / Unit funds can continue to play a pivotal role in enhancing the quality of life in military communities."
 
We ran a very small one out of a locker in our troop area, Petawawa circa 1976.

Yup, one day the civie CANEX enforcers showed up, unannounced to the Regiment, MPs in tow, demanded the locker be opened or they would force it, took our 5 or 6 chocky bars, a few bags of chips and about a dozen pops.

They also took our coffee can with less than $20 in it.
 
Occam said:
Probably nothing that you need to worry about at this point.  When the facility was first taken over by CFB Halifax, it was managed by a retired Navy Chief, who ran the place like a tight ship.  They had sailors tripping over each other to volunteer for weekend work parties to fix buildings, clear brush, and just general labour.  The place was booked solid most of the time with people making very favourable reports on the facility.

When PSP took over, the old Navy Chief was pushed out by a bean counter who promptly raised the cottage and camping prices through the roof, ended the "reward" program for volunteer work parties, and basically turned the place on its ear.  Occupancy rates dropped like a rock because it was no longer priced attractively to compete with similar facilities.

I'm not sure what it's like now, but it had potential to be a real gem in the crown of the Navy.  I'd be curious to know if it ever reached that status.

http://www.cg.cfpsa.ca/cg-pc/Halifax/EN/FallsLake/Pages/Rates.aspx

I used to enjoy Falls Lake.  I went once 10 years back or so, just camping, and didn't really like it that much.  Staff weren't overly friendly, it was noisy and I haven't been back and don't really even think of the place now when taking off for a weekend.  Even the cabins, you have to bring your own linen and pillows nowadays or "rent" them from the facility. 

For a few extra bucks, you can get some nice tent sites right on the water at Porters Lake PP. 
 
Here's how my old unit (un-named of course), got around the PSP/CFMWS bull#^$t.

We had weekly barbecues with the responsibility for its conduct (buying suppies, cooking and clean-up) assigned to the sub-units on a monthly basis.

Leftover supplies were stored in the QM, in a fridge/freezer purchased by the unit fund.  The barbecues weren't fancy - burgers, hotdogs and the occasional mess of bratwurst.

A crapload of $$ went into the unit fund, subsidizing most social functions to the tune of 80% or more.

The unit fund constitution was the governing document.
 
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