Creating a canteen

[DAA]

Here's how my old unit (un-named of course), got around the PSP/CFMWS bull#^$t.

We had weekly barbecues with the responsibility for its conduct (buying suppies, cooking and clean-up) assigned to the sub-units on a monthly basis.

Leftover supplies were stored in the QM, in a fridge/freezer purchased by the unit fund.  The barbecues weren't fancy - burgers, hotdogs and the occasional mess of bratwurst.

A crapload of $$ went into the unit fund, subsidizing most social functions to the tune of 80% or more.

The unit fund constitution was the governing document.

That technically wouldn't be a "unit fund".  Regretably, Unit Funds are also controlled by PSP and there are restrictions on how that money is spent and it also must be accounted for.

 

[Tibbson]

Here's how my old unit (un-named of course), got around the PSP/CFMWS bull#^$t.

We had weekly barbecues with the responsibility for its conduct (buying suppies, cooking and clean-up) assigned to the sub-units on a monthly basis.

Leftover supplies were stored in the QM, in a fridge/freezer purchased by the unit fund.  The barbecues weren't fancy - burgers, hotdogs and the occasional mess of bratwurst.

A crapload of $$ went into the unit fund, subsidizing most social functions to the tune of 80% or more.

The unit fund constitution was the governing document.

Call it what you want but the fact it went on, undetected and unchallenged, was more good luck then good management.  I've seen ops like that, $2 "dress down Fridays" (not run as part of the United Way initiatives) and office coffee pots at 25 cents a cup being shut down or investigated because it didnt operate under the PSP umbrella.  Funny how the system seems to worry more about such operations more so then IR fraud or travel card misuse.

 

[DAA]

Call it what you want but the fact it went on, undetected and unchallenged, was more good luck then good management.  I've seen ops like that, $2 "dress down Fridays" (not run as part of the United Way initiatives) and office coffee pots at 25 cents a cup being shut down or investigated because it didnt operate under the PSP umbrella.  Funny how the system seems to worry more about such operations more so then IR fraud or travel card misuse.

All in the name of morale, rah rah rah, let's do something good for each other, lend a hand to those less fortunate, etc, etc, etc.  All's fine and dandy, until that one person doesn't get their "veggie burger" at the BBQ, a show of hands to support a local charity sets that one person off on a tanget and heaven forbid, "I'm the CO and I will decide what's best for that money".  It only takes ONE dissenting voice to bring the entire house of cards down, no matter how well it's run, organized or managed.

However, now that we have batted this one around the park, my advice to Crispy Bacon........

Contact your local PSP Office and just "float" the question of "Our Unit/Section is thinking about possibily starting up a small, very small, canteen only for our unit/section members.  So I am wondering just what is involved and what we might be required to do, if you decide to do this at all."

Then you can at least, see for yourself, just what's involved in the process.  And I'm sure they will tell you what the implications are if you ignore them and go it alone.  Never hurts to ask.......

 

[The Anti-Royal]

That technically wouldn't be a "unit fund".  Regretably, Unit Funds are also controlled by PSP and there are restrictions on how that money is spent and it also must be accounted for.

Why isn't it a unit fund, or a proper means of raising money for the unit fund?

PSP may issue the over-riding policy about expenditures and accountability, but our unit fund committee (of which I was a member, along with fair representation from across the spectrum of ranks) decided how the money was raised and spent.

And to address a couple of comments above:

a.  neither of my two COs inserted the smallest bit of their fingers in decisions made by the committee.  Perhaps that's an anomaly . . .

b.  my unit was quite small and everyone knew each other very well.  I submit that all members felt comfortable enough expressing their views to the committee, and had confidence that those views would be considered and decisions would be made that reflected the interests of the unit as a whole.  That may not be possible in other organizations.

 

[DAA]

Why isn't it a unit fund, or a proper means of raising money for the unit fund?

PSP may issue the over-riding policy about expenditures and accountability, but our unit fund committee (of which I was a member, along with fair representation from across the spectrum of ranks) decided how the money was raised and spent.

And to address a couple of comments above:

a.  neither of my two COs inserted the smallest bit of their fingers in decisions made by the committee.  Perhaps that's an anomaly . . .

b.  my unit was quite small and everyone knew each other very well.  I submit that all members felt comfortable enough expressing their views to the committee, and had confidence that those views would be considered and decisions would be made that reflected the interests of the unit as a whole.  That may not be possible in other organizations.

Not disagreeing with what you did or how you went about doing things, it does happen from time to time.  But a "Unit Fund", I do believe, is governed by PSP and I think that PSP also holds the monies, which your unit is "accountable" to PSP for and you are required to report both revenue and expenses.  I'd have to check to be certain.

But I would really tend to lean towards the side of "If your unit is not dealing with PSP, when it comes to your "Unit Fund", then it probably is not a recognized "Unit Fund".

You can always forge ahead and then if the question(s) come to light, oooooopppsssss.  Didn't realize that......  :dunno:

 

[The Anti-Royal]

Not disagreeing with what you did or how you went about doing things, it does happen from time to time.  But a "Unit Fund", I do believe, is governed by PSP and I think that PSP also holds the monies, which your unit is "accountable" to PSP for and you are required to report both revenue and expenses.  I'd have to check to be certain.

But I would really tend to lean towards the side of "If your unit is not dealing with PSP, when it comes to your "Unit Fund", then it probably is not a recognized "Unit Fund".

We may be on the verge of having a violent agreement. 

I agree that unit funds, and the one to which I referred in particular, are governed by a number of policies (CFMWS/PSP being one of them) but are operated by unit fund committees.  In our case, PSP did not hold the funds.  Our unit had its own bank account, and reported revenues and expenditures regularly.  Minutes of unit fund committee meetings were also forwarded to the appropriate authorities.

It was certainly a "recognized" fund.  Nothing was hidden - from anyone.

That said, the advice offered above to seek PSP advice before doing anything is sound.

 

[Griffon]

Not disagreeing with what you did or how you went about doing things, it does happen from time to time.  But a "Unit Fund", I do believe, is governed by PSP and I think that PSP also holds the monies, which your unit is "accountable" to PSP for and you are required to report both revenue and expenses.  I'd have to check to be certain.

But I would really tend to lean towards the side of "If your unit is not dealing with PSP, when it comes to your "Unit Fund", then it probably is not a recognized "Unit Fund".

Unit funds are governed by NPP policies, and are normally managed by a unit commitee that submits financial information to NPF Accounts. Revenues, expenses, and inventories must be reported. Unit purchasers are required to take a course to be issued a credit card, as authorized by the CO, to make purchases. Receipts are to be submitted to NPF accounts monthly for reconciliation. NPF does not take a cut of revenues, but they do ensure that GST/HST is paid on profits. It is a bit of a headache, but it's manageable, even within the rules. Funds are to be held by NPF Accounts as well, in a deprecate unit account.

At least this is how things were two years ago, the last time I served on a unit fund commitee.

 

[Tibbson]

We may be on the verge of having a violent agreement. 

I agree that unit funds, and the one to which I referred in particular, are governed by a number of policies (CFMWS/PSP being one of them) but are operated by unit fund committees.  In our case, PSP did not hold the funds.  Our unit had its own bank account, and reported revenues and expenditures regularly.  Minutes of unit fund committee meetings were also forwarded to the appropriate authorities.

It was certainly a "recognized" fund.  Nothing was hidden - from anyone.

That said, the advice offered above to seek PSP advice before doing anything is sound.

Then it sounds, on the surface of it all at least, that you were operating IAW NPF rules and regs which is the whole point of the discussion and advice to the original poster.

 

[DAA]

We may be on the verge of having a violent agreement. 

Our unit had its own bank account,  It was certainly a "recognized" fund.  Nothing was hidden - from anyone.

That said, the advice offered above to seek PSP advice before doing anything is sound.

Just giving my advice, based on experience, nothing more, so I definitely don't take offence.   

But here is another indicator by the comment "Our unit had its own bank account".  Big NO NO, so I am led to believe......

You just might want to convene a committee meeting to discuss your Unit Fund and then decide just how to go from there.  Before you talk to PSP.  Gotta have those "ducks" lined up......

 

[The Anti-Royal]

Just giving my advice, based on experience, nothing more, so I definitely don't take offence to being told to "P" off.   

But here is another indicator by the comment "Our unit had its own bank account".  Big NO NO, so I am led to believe......

You just might want to convene a committee meeting to discuss your Unit Fund and then decide just how to go from there.  Before you talk to PSP.  Gotta have those "ducks" lined up......

PM inbound.

It's a bit late to convene a committee meeting, as I retired eight months ago. 

 

[shootemup604]

Could a canteen be run as a sub-committee of the kitshop or mess, or to even distance it further, as part of a branch or regimental association?

 

[DAA]

Could a canteen be run as a sub-committee of the kitshop or mess, or to even distance it further, as part of a branch or regimental association?

Within the confines of a Defence Establishment (ie; on a Base/Wing/Station, DND Building or buidling used by DND).  No.

 

[CountDC]

But here is another indicator by the comment "Our unit had its own bank account".  Big NO NO, so I am led to believe......

The unit can have its own business account for the unit fund if it wants to and is no longer required to leave funds with NPP.  NPF/NPP just this week transferred funds from a dormant account they were holding for us to our current bank account.  They contacted us about it and gave us the choice of leaving it with them or transferring it to our bank account.  I selected option 2 and had the CO approve it.

There are yearly audit reports that have to be submitted by sometime in Jul of each year and they go through it with a fine tooth comb.

Prior comment made on only taking one to ruin things is very true.  Use to have the snowball draw setup on the OR counter at one unit years ago until a mbr clearing in asked where the lottery licence was.  Draw gone right then.