CrossFit/AOFP

[ZipperHead]

I am starting up a forum for those interested in CrossFit/AOFP (Army Operational Fitness Program).

At the moment, I am calling it the CTC CrossFit Discussion forum (as I am working at CTC), but I don't want it to be inclusive to CTC pers. I do, however, want to keep it inclusive to people SERIOUS about XFit/AOFP. If you want to slag CrossFit as crap, a waste of time, etc, you need not apply.

I have access to quite a bit of XFit (and like-minded) stuff, and I am in contact with those pers who are designing the AOFP (for inclusion into the AFM), but I would like to get input from other pers, as anybody who knows anything about XFit, it isn't magic: it's just common sense.

To limit it to those who are serious (I don't have time to moderate the forum to the degree that this forum requires it.... especially because of people like me  >), I am not going to publish the forum address here. Rather, I will ask those that are interested to PM me, and I will provide a link. Yes, that is elitist, but toughski-shitski. No doubt, the link will be "compromised" but we can burn that bridge when the time comes.....

Keep in mind that this is a "free" forum (if anybody knows of a better venue than the one I have chosen, please let me know), so it has advertising. It is accessible on the DWAN (for those that want to access it at work), and (for now) the advertising that pops up is Safe for Work (SFW), but if it becomes N(ot)SFW, I will have to look elsewhere.

For those employed at CTC, PM me, and you will receive extra access to the stuff that I have stored on the Shared drive (that I WILL NOT share via the forum, due to a gentleman's aggreement between Coach Glassman and CTC (intellectual property rights issues) to keep it internal to CTC, so don't bother asking for me to upload them). There has to be some perks granted for being posted to CTC.....

Anyway, I look forward to the members of Army.ca who have an interest in XFit to join in and offer advice, encouragement, suggestions, etc.

Al

 

[Infanteer]

What's Crossfit?

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

CrossFit/AOFP (Army Operational Fitness Program)

See that's why you didn't get an invite, Infanteer.

http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/what-crossfit.html

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

I am not going to publish the forum address here. Rather, I will ask those that are interested to PM me, and I will provide a link. Yes, that is elitist, but toughski-shitski.

Sorry Allan, I couldn't resist:

Not that I have a burning desire to be a "member" (as Groucho Marx famously said: "I don‘t care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members.". )

If I have to be invited to be a member (a la "secret societies") I don‘t want to partake. I jump through enough hoops in the Army that I can do without them on my leisure time.

Whomever does the inviting please take note.

Al

I bring it up only because I recall at the time that "toughski shitski" didn't seem to placate. The links won't work, as the posts are in the super secret hidden elitist portion of the forums, AKA the Graveyard.

All kidding aside, good luck with your venture, I do (honestly) hope it works out for you.


Cheers
Mike

 

[ZipperHead]

Geez, Mike, it's nice to see that people actually remember what I have said in the past, even if I can't. Actually I do remember saying that very thing. I knew someone would bring it up. I am definitely a "Do as I say, not as I do" type of person. I get over it pretty quickly, though. Some people evolve, others don't.

AL

 

[marlene]

Hmmm.  I'm a civilian and AOFP means nothing to me.  Crossfit however appears to be gaining popularity across the country and is found in most cities now.  I'm just starting up with it.  I tend to get kind of silly and very excited about my sports (and racing) and like to be pushed to my limits - I think Crossfit might just be the thing for me in between my regular sessions.  Hope so.

Marlene

 

[COBRA-6]

Army Operational Fitness Program

The Infantry School's Austere AOFP briefing was posted on the crossfit website a few weeks ago. Very interesting.

I was introduced to kettlebells last week by a kettlebell instructor, they seem to be an excellent piece of workout kit...

 

[WATCHDOG-81]

What is the current status of Crossfit at the Inf Sch?  I was on a trial for Crossfit last year and I believe that the research conducted resulted in the program not being recommended for implementation.  As well, when I inquired about Crossfit with the PSP staff in NDHQ I was told that the program was not approved by the CF nor was it recommended by any of the PSP staff that I talked to.

 

[ZipperHead]

What is the current status of Crossfit at the Inf Sch?  I was on a trial for Crossfit last year and I believe that the research conducted resulted in the program not being recommended for implementation.  As well, when I inquired about Crossfit with the PSP staff in NDHQ I was told that the program was not approved by the CF nor was it recommended by any of the PSP staff that I talked to.

I can't comment definitively on the status of XFit at the Inf School (as I work at the Armour School, and it's just TOO far of a walk down the hall to ask.....  ;D ), but a little birdy told me that there will indeed be an annex put into the AFM (Army Fitness Manual) with Xfit/AOFP (same dog, different leg) workouts, explanations, etc sometime in the near future.

As for the PSP staff in Ottawa saying that it's not approved, well, that speaks volumes about their knowledge level and/or ignorance of things like this. The majority of the exercises that I do (and many other pers that I know) for my Xfit workouts are in the AFM (pushups, pullups, squats, abcore, etc). Even if "they" were to ban CrossFit (for whatever reason imaginable), people would still be able to do it, as it is no different than many other exercise regimes (in content): it's just the methodology and intensity that makes it "look" different. If you can find somebody who has given XFit an honest effort (3-4 months) and are dissenters, I would love to hear why. IMO, it would likely be more their motivation and determination level being lacking (you have to be willing to give it everything you have, almost all the time) than the CrossFit ideology not being sound.

Al

 

[scoutfinch]

What is the current status of Crossfit at the Inf Sch?  I was on a trial for Crossfit last year and I believe that the research conducted resulted in the program not being recommended for implementation.  As well, when I inquired about Crossfit with the PSP staff in NDHQ I was told that the program was not approved by the CF nor was it recommended by any of the PSP staff that I talked to.

Crossfit, although not implemented, is still being pushed heavily at the Infantry School.  During CAP, We spent the better part of the morning in a briefing and also had a day worth of crossfit-ish (cross fit lite?) training with a circuit training competition.  We also had a powerlifting technique test (a PO) so that we would properly be able to perform cross fit moves.

To be fair to the program, I think a modified version would be appropriate for training.  But what creeps me out is the cult like devotion of cross fit followers.  The apparent addiction is worse than running (and trust me, I know how obsessive we can be!)

 

[WATCHDOG-81]

"As for the PSP staff in Ottawa saying that it's not approved, well, that speaks volumes about their knowledge level and/or ignorance of things like this. The majority of the exercises that I do (and many other pers that I know) for my Xfit workouts are in the AFM (pushups, pullups, squats, abcore, etc). Even if "they" were to ban CrossFit (for whatever reason imaginable), people would still be able to do it, as it is no different than many other exercise regimes (in content): it's just the methodology and intensity that makes it "look" different. If you can find somebody who has given XFit an honest effort (3-4 months) and are dissenters, I would love to hear why. IMO, it would likely be more their motivation and determination level being lacking (you have to be willing to give it everything you have, almost all the time) than the CrossFit ideology not being sound."

Although some of the PSP questioned some of Crossfit's methodology/techniques, the main issue was the recovery time associated with Crossfit and the number of injuries that resulted from the Crossfit trial.  In a nutshell, they stated that the body of most people cannot repair muscle as fast as Crossfit can tear it down, leading to both soft tissue and bone fractures.  This was apparant during last year's study.

 

[-Marauder-]

I am a crossfit guy, though a moderate if such a thing is possible as it is not in my nature to get overly excited about PT. In addition, I do not have access to all of the tools which are required to properly complete some of the exercises and ususally do the recommended replacement... so a 'lite' version in some cases.  I still run and most importantly, I still strap on my rucksack and go for a march/shuffle but I believe that crossfit is an excellent program to follow.  Many people have spoken to the nature of the exercises themselves and their value (or lack) as well as that of the program itself.  For my part I'd draw your attention to the fact that I can scale the exercises down (in weight, time, distance, etc.) building myself up to the instructed level and like some of the more devoted, beyond.  This makes it something that anyone can do, not only the fanatical .

Cheers,

Mike

 

[ZipperHead]

From ScoutFinch:

To be fair to the program, I think a modified version would be appropriate for training.  But what creeps me out is the cult like devotion of cross fit followers.  The apparent addiction is worse than running (and trust me, I know how obsessive we can be!)

I concur completely about both points (a modified version can be appropriate for trg and the devotion/addiction aspect). The problem a lot of people have with it is that it isn't "dumb" PT, where you can pull a "work-out" out of your arse ("Oh, let's go for a....hmmmmmm.... 5km run!!!!" That took a lot of thought and planning to implement). I haven't done it in a group setting (yet), and I am curious how it will work out for a largish size (15-20 pers) organization. The devotion/addiction aspect I suspect is borne of the fact that while the results aren't immediate (which our instant gratification society has come to expect), they are impressive over the longer term, and the time saved from doing the workouts (and spending the saved time on stretching or other exercises like handstands or other body awareness drills) is also key.

From Watchdog-81:

Although some of the PSP questioned some of Crossfit's methodology/techniques, the main issue was the recovery time associated with Crossfit and the number of injuries that resulted from the Crossfit trial.  In a nutshell, they stated that the body of most people cannot repair muscle as fast as Crossfit can tear it down, leading to both soft tissue and bone fractures.  This was apparant during last year's study.

I think that this stems from people who either aren't informed about what CrossFit entails or are "young, dumb and full of XXX" and jump into a full blown WOD as prescribed without having the base fitness level. Because I am much wiser than when I was a young buck, I eased into XFit, and have only incurred two injuries: tendonitis (self diagnosed) in my elbows from doing a large number of kipping pull ups, with only one hand position utilized (palms facing away), and the second injury was a stiff neck (slight muscle pull) from practicing free standing handstands (I normally go against a wall, but decided to practice free standing ones on a mat). When I started to lose my balance, I looked hard left for a place to bail out, and pulled something. Not bad: 2 injuries in about 9 months of XFitting. When I was running a lot, I would average an injury (sore knee, sore back, foot pain) about once every month.

All of the briefings that I have attended or heard about the AOFP (again, just the CF name placed on CrossFit-style exercises) have stressed the need to be at a very high level of fitness (level 3 minimum in AFM testing) before starting on XFit/AOFP in earnest. Of course, if one were serious about starting AOFP and were at a lower fitness level, it is all about scaling it to your abilities ( a broom pole instead of 90 pounds for overhead squats, for example). In fact, it is recommended to do the "stick work" (broom pole or similar object) to ensure that one's form is perfect before attempting to add weight.

There will no doubt continue to be resistance to anything that changes the status quo (especially when it is something that is difficult). An example of the patheticness that has permeated the CF: we (CTC) did the Terry Fox run today. There was much gnashing of teeth and whinging. People were "joking" about wishing that they had the option of paying NOT to run/walk the 6 or 10km routes (it was optional for which distance one walked or ran). Terry Fox "only" ran 150 marathons in a row. Yeah, I can see how some of the "warriors" that we have in our military really inspire confidence.

Anyway, it's likely obvious that I am one of those affilicted with the CrossFit addiction. Better to be addicted to fitness than many of the other vices that are prevalent in our society.

Al


(Inappropriate use of language removed by Moderator.)

 

[nuttman]

Firstly a brief intro... I am a Crossfiter, in the best shape of my life, & have been training beginner to advanced crossfiters. Myself & another coach have been training the New Wesminster Regiment (reserve) in Vancouver for the past 1.5 months.  Also, I'm in the last stages of the application process into the CF (just waiting for the call). 

I have some issue with a few things that has been discussed:
#1 - "cult like devotion to Crossfit"
Crossfit is & never has been a cult.  It is fitness/nutrition/well-being/sport.  When beginners get into it they are often taught about the inadequcies of other training methods, the superiority of the Crossfit style, and see/feel results generally very fast.  All of this combined with people natural tendency to latch onto the latest-greatest fad & promote what they like leads to "outsiders" seeing them as Crossfit Zealots.  The whole idea of Crossfit emphasizes the idea that  our minds must be open to new/different/better methods (some describe this as open-source-fitness).  The proof is in the pudding, if it's healthy & produces better results, then thats the way its done (& word is spread throughout the community).  Same with calling it an addiction, are you an addict if you enjoy being healthy?  No, of course not, its called being smart, its called surviving, its called genetics.  Would you characterize a Doctor as being a medical addict?  Of course not (in the general case, always exceptions of course)!  I don't mean to get negative, but it really irks me when people refer to Crossfit with any of the implications of a fad/cult/addiction, that could not be further from the truth. 

#2 - PSP issues re: crossfit style & Adoption of AOFP (bad title, but please read on)
One word here people, SCALING.  There are no special populations when it comes to Crossfit (aka, too old, too young, too out-of-shape, etc).  A beginner can do most of the excersises that a veteren Crossfitter can, the only difference is scaling & intensity.  The workouts posted on Crossit.com are advanced, but yet anyone can do them, just scaled down to their appropriate level of fitness (5 instead of 50 reps, broom stick instead if bar, etc).  The importance is having the awareness to recognize that fact and adjust.  As well, most people have never trained at the intensity of Crossfit exercises & thus need time for their bodies to adjust, need proper scaling to prevent rhabdomyolysis (literally killing your muscles), & require plenty of recovery time in the beginning.  I suspect that is what might have happened to the test group the PSP people saw run through the Crossfit workouts (too hard too soon).  As well I suspect that is why the CF is going with AOFP/Crossfit instead of Crossfit pure.  The lack of knowledgable personel, suceptability of "too hard too soon", & the need to fit into current CF protocol I assume are big reasons.  I'm honestly surprised how the AFM level 3 isn't the required minimum for everyone in the CF (but thats just an outsider's off-the-cuff point of view)

In my expeience working with the New Westminster Regiment (who, to put it pretty bluntly, looked like a sorry decrepit group whe we first walked in) when properly trained & motivated the results can be positively amazing.  At first we could hardly get some of the older people to even run around the block, now 1 month later I watch them jump up to complete the excersie first, lead the group around the block, & often place better than their younger troops.  We heard so many excuses in the first week when we told them to do some air-squats (bad knees, weak back, forgot to eat dinner, etc).  But last week when I told them to complete 250 air-squats (with a team of 5) there was not a peep or groan at all.  We even find there are increasing numbers attending every week (which came as a surprise to us, we thought considering the decrepit shape of some of them, we'd have half of 'em scared off in a few weeks). 

Stay healthy & live smart!

 

[TN2IC]

Wow thanks for the find bud... I will be sure to look it over.


Cheers,
TN2IC


;D

 

[Sc011y]

We have been doing this stuff at my regiment every thursday now for...well the whole year.  Its good stuff, but ONLY if you do it more than once a week.  One might think this obvious, but people still complained about not seeing results.  It turned out they only did the stuff once a week.

 

[M14]

3VP has a Crossfit facility in their Para sim room.  Lots of money invested.  Each platoon has a certified Crossfit instructor.  The workouts are great, better than jogging up and down the runway.  But as usual the army has taken something great and ruined it.  Because of space/time only one platoon can use the facility during morning PT.  We can only get in about once a week.  We're not allowed to use the room on our own without a certified instructor supervising.  We can use the regular gym on our own though.  I guess doing box jumps in the Crossfit room is more dangerous that 250 pound unsupervised bench presses.  Once or twice a week isn't enough to get the proper results.  So many stupid people in charge  :

 

[M14]

I understand what you are saying about working out on operations., but not being able to use thousands of dollars worth of equipment while in garrison is stupid.  What was the point of spending money on in?  If you can't take maximun advantage of the gear might as well put it up on ebay. 

 

[Bartok5]

.....Because of space/time only one platoon can use the facility during morning PT.  We can only get in about once a week.  We're not allowed to use the room on our own without a certified instructor supervising.  .....So many stupid people in charge  :

Nice rant, M14.  Too bad your facts are incorrect.  The unit policy is that platoons book the facility on a rotating basis.  The booked platoon has priority for the use of equipment associated with their workout.  Others are welcome to use the balance of the facility/equipment on a space available basis.  It is as much as safety issue (overcrowding) as it is a means of avoiding competition for equipment which would leave people standing around waiting during what is supposed to be a continous, high-intensity workout.

As for individuals not being permitted to use the facility without the supervision of a certified coach, that is also a safety issue.  Crossfit relies upon proper technique for many of the exercises (eg.  weightlifting) in order to avoid unnecessary injury.  I will concede your point however, that if an individual has been taught the applicable techniques for their intended workout, then they ought to be able to use the facility without direct supervision.  

Now that I am aware of the issue (never raised through the unit chain of command) I will revisit the individual use policy.  As the "senior stupid person" in charge of the unit, that is my perogative.  Yes, this is your Acting CO typing away on my lunch hour.  Way to step on your genitalia.....   :

 

[aesop081]

:rofl:

you gotta love this place