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Current Dress Regs

Or unless you see something like this ;)

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I have long hair and a big full beard. But I keep it slicked back and my beard tamed with beard balm.

I'm not sure why we can't allow long hair and beards and also expect people to not look like hobos.
 
I'm not sure why we can't allow long hair and beards and also expect people to not look like hobos.
Pre BEARDFORGEN/HAIRFORGEN, I saw someone I was certain was living rough in downtown Ottawa.

A day later, I had a meeting with a Commander of the Legal Branch - the same person.

Liberties with dress and appearance are not novel...
 
You obviously were not in the military in the late 80’s. We couldn’t even procure blank rounds for training. I continue to hear it is all your senior leaders that are the problem. That is bullshit. I will leave the Sandy comment alone for now.
Bullshit.

I was in the Army of the early 80s...in fact I did 40 years in total.

And the Army I thought I had joined did not appear until mid 2000's...after I had 3 operational tours, one of the on Exchange with the Brits.

No doubt your assessment of our former awesomeness was based on your multiple tours.

What changed was we went to war. You may have been there, in which case welcome my brother.

In my first 25 years of service, I buried no friends or comrades killed in combat, but mourned some killed on operations. I informed no people that they were now widowed, or childless.

Yes Bosnia was a challenge. But so too was Afghanistan. And later Iraq.

The last 15 years were different...and harder...and way better.

So spare me.

Tell me again why the military today is a shadow of its former 1980's self because people have longer hair.

Or maybe you can tell us how good we were back then?
 
Uh, no.

No one is telling folks not to wear uniforms to/from work. They are also not telling people to wear them to/from work. All the CoCs care about is that you wear a uniform while at work (unless on Fri in the NCR...)

Not everything is a conspiracy directed from the PMO. Sometimes folks just want to commute in civies because it's more comfortable and we don't want to sweat through our DEUs before getting to the office.
Depending on where I am going, it is normally easy to change at work, especially if I have to take public transit. For one it's nice to not have people stare at you, and two, the TTC isn't nearly as safe as it used to be and based on past expiernces of walking in uniform from the subway to Moss Park in Uniform on the odd time once or twice a year when I have to work there, of having countless homeless people yell at me because I won't give them money. I don't normally get that in civi's.
 
Tell me again why the military today is a shadow of its former 1980's self because people have longer hair.

Or maybe you can tell us how good we were back then?
I go back to the mid '60s and with the hundreds of gunner veterans of Afghanistan that I've now interviewed for this book, I can say without hesitation that today's product is better than we ever were. I was no slouch in my day but the guys and gals running the gun lines and FOOing and JTACing today would eat my lunch in a competition in a heart beat.

I have a bit of a different view about the Army as a system. In our day we had a competitive army qualitatively with our peers and foes and, at the time, we had that confidence that goes with that. We haven't kept that up. Obviously the Army's gear has gotten better but as a system it has far too many capability gaps that makes it very difficult to be competitive with those first class armies that we used to consider we were peers with. That's not a factor that has anything whatsoever to do with personal appearance, however.

Incidentally, I still have the porn stash I grew in 1970. And I did get a weekly rocket from the adjutant to get my "f***ing hair cut".

GATES Shilo late 1990s.jpg

🍻
 
Pre BEARDFORGEN/HAIRFORGEN, I saw someone I was certain was living rough in downtown Ottawa.

A day later, I had a meeting with a Commander of the Legal Branch - the same person.

Liberties with dress and appearance are not novel...
When I first got to the NCR (like first day one my way to a new job trying to figure out the buses) got jacked up by some random Cdr when I got off at Rideau for a transfer (across from 101) for... wearing a beret with SS naval DEUs. Something along the lines of 'naval officers don't wear berets' yada yada yada, you should also be wearing whites it's summer... carry on Lt.

Meanwhile same guy had a shirt tailored with an extension to hold in his significant mid range. Maybe he was a LogO transporting a ful resupply for a NATO fleet, who knows.

So despite the fact that I had just gotten in from the coast, and had a high and tight hair cut, sharp creases and fully within dress regs, still got jacked up, which was probably when I stopped caring so much about exceeding the rules just meeting them (and my own personal standards) was enough.

I think the kerfuffle is still way overblown; most people are still on the old standards, because it's frankly easier, and most that are having fun with the new standard still look tidy. There are just some people that, regardless of how much they groom, will always look disheveled, or will have a 5 o'clock shadow come back in shortly after toweling off. As long as they can do their job (to whatever the standard is) I'm okay with that. Frankly hear a lot of stories about people being raging alcoholics 'back in the day' of spit shine and tight hair cuts that I think the priorities were a bit misplaced.
 
Also, Members are public figures and we should be presentable when in public.

Can't remember last time I saw a CAF Member, in uniform, in public.

If I did pass one on the neighbourhood sidewalk, other than a polite "Hello", ( maybe even a brief chat and to thank them and wish them well, if I had the opportunity to do so, ) that would be the limit of our contact.

So, why would I GAF about their personal grooming, if it's good enough for the CAF?
 
When I first got to the NCR (like first day one my way to a new job trying to figure out the buses) got jacked up by some random Cdr when I got off at Rideau for a transfer (across from 101) for... wearing a beret with SS naval DEUs. Something along the lines of 'naval officers don't wear berets' yada yada yada, you should also be wearing whites it's summer... carry on Lt.
Someone wanted to be technically correct: The best kind of correct (even if it doesn't make a lick of difference to the price of tea in China).
Meanwhile same guy had a shirt tailored with an extension to hold in his significant mid range. Maybe he was a LogO transporting a ful resupply for a NATO fleet, who knows.
This is more of my gripe with the CFDI revision. I would maybe hold more stock in the "it looks unprofessional" crowd, were it not led by a chorus of gastropods who believe PT stands for "Personal Time" between 0700-0900hrs.

So despite the fact that I had just gotten in from the coast, and had a high and tight hair cut, sharp creases and fully within dress regs, still got jacked up, which was probably when I stopped caring so much about exceeding the rules just meeting them (and my own personal standards) was enough.
Again, this is where poor/toxic leadership breeds apathy. Had this Cdr been in a high standard of dress/personal appearance as well, and pulled you aside to say "I see you're new here, here's some free advice...." You both would have walked away from the exchange better leaders for it. Instead, its an anecdote on when your GAF-o-meter broke...

I think the kerfuffle is still way overblown; most people are still on the old standards, because it's frankly easier, and most that are having fun with the new standard still look tidy. There are just some people that, regardless of how much they groom, will always look disheveled, or will have a 5 o'clock shadow come back in shortly after toweling off. As long as they can do their job (to whatever the standard is) I'm okay with that.
Hear hear
Frankly hear a lot of stories about people being raging alcoholics 'back in the day' of spit shine and tight hair cuts that I think the priorities were a bit misplaced.
A former RSM of mine did the Germany>Gulf War>Somalia>Bosnia run before Afghanistan. He said once the wall fell and things actually went pear shaped with proxy wars/PSO/COIN, he realized how useless his crew from Germany would have been in Panjwaii; they were alcoholics, smoked like chimneys, and spent a lot of time on Ex playing euchre and copulating with canines. There was very little incentive to actually do the job because, well, the Soviets weren't coming any time soon....

But yes... They were parade ready....
 
Someone wanted to be technically correct: The best kind of correct (even if it doesn't make a lick of difference to the price of tea in China).
The thing is, he wasn't correct. Summer dress means TWL is allowed, but it's not the required order of dress unless specifically ordered. Same goes for peaked cap vs. beret. The Cdr was just spouting nonsense someone else had told him, and doing it in the worst way possible,
 
The thing is, he wasn't correct. Summer dress means TWL is allowed, but it's not the required order of dress unless specifically ordered. Same goes for peaked cap vs. beret. The Cdr was just spouting nonsense someone else had told him, and doing it in the worst way possible,
I stand corrected. Thank you for explaining the RCN dress stuff to this land lubber
 
Couple dudes did the purple hair thing but got bullied and harassed by the locals (civies in town) constantly. They went back to their normal hair color shortly after. CAF might be accommodating but society will tell you how they really feel.
sounds somewhat self correcting.
 
The thing is, he wasn't correct. Summer dress means TWL is allowed, but it's not the required order of dress unless specifically ordered. Same goes for peaked cap vs. beret. The Cdr was just spouting nonsense someone else had told him, and doing it in the worst way possible,

Or as oft is seen, leadership by opinion.

There is a sect in the Naval Officer world who have a death grip on all things Naval tradition. I find this crew is usually, but not always, populated with retirees, CiC, Nav Res and Support occupation officers, who all spend and will have spent very little if any time at sea in their lives. The Gate and Gaiters FB group is a good example. A toxic cesspool generally made up of a drooling harem of retirees and inexperienced officers committed in life to all things Nelson.
 
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Or as oft is seen, leadership by opinion.

There is a sect in the Naval Officer world who have a death grip on all things Naval tradition. I find this crew is usually, but not always, populated with retirees, CiC, Nav Res and Support occupation officers, who all spend and will have spent very little if any time at sea in their lives. The Gate and Gaiters FB group is a good example. A toxic cesspool generally made up of a drooling harem of retirees and inexperienced officers committed in life to all things Nelson.
Sounds like a group of wannabes. I’m almost tempted to join just for the laughs…almost 😉
 
A toxic cesspool generally made up of a drooling harem of retirees and inexperienced officers committed in life to all things Nelson.
Now Tar, as a member of that esteemed group, I can confirm that there is a lively discussion of dress and deportment and other issues non operations. Yes there are some martinets, just like everywhere else in the CAF, GoC, RCMP, The Teamsters, even the gangs running the TTC.

As of yet, its been years since I last drooled on myself!
 
The thing is, he wasn't correct. Summer dress means TWL is allowed, but it's not the required order of dress unless specifically ordered. Same goes for peaked cap vs. beret. The Cdr was just spouting nonsense someone else had told him, and doing it in the worst way possible,
That was the weird thing, I was fully compliant with the actual dress manual (which I had happened to look at the night before, because I was nervous and didn't want to roll up with something wrong on my uniform). Some people get really into 'tradition' vs what's actually allowed, and still run into that peak cap thing once in a while.

No idea why it stuck with me so clearly, but now go out of my way to not wear whites (the shoes in particular are terrible) and the beret. Will probably start wearing the new peak cap in the summer, because it's definitely not as warm as the plastic topped one, but given that it's been 15 years, I guess I hold strange grudges.
 
^^
I've never liked the beret, it's just a personal thing with me. Never seemed to look right on my big kraut head.
I've always worn the cap with no issues and I even tried to get the plastic one a bit of the crushed look just to be a bit more salty.

As for the arse that jacked you up? Buddy if you cannot see your d*** because of your gut, you have no right to jack anyone up.
 
^^
I've never liked the beret, it's just a personal thing with me. Never seemed to look right on my big kraut head.
I've always worn the cap with no issues and I even tried to get the plastic one a bit of the crushed look just to be a bit more salty.

As for the arse that jacked you up? Buddy if you cannot see your d*** because of your gut, you have no right to jack anyone up.
Amen! The beret is horrible, I have worn mine maybe three times since switching to RCN DEU. All three times where while I was in CADPAT to go inspect Alert.

I joked with people that the entire reason I switched was so I never had to wear a beret again...
 
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