Dead soldier's family bemoans severity of charges against 'amigo'

[GAP]

Dead soldier's family bemoans severity of charges against 'amigo'
Experts say rifle's safety could have been switched off accidentally
ALEX DOBROTA From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
Article Link

OTTAWA — The safety on the rifle that killed Master Corporal Jeffrey Walsh could have been flicked off accidentally when the gun rubbed against a piece of equipment, military experts said yesterday.

Those comments came as Mr. Walsh's relatives decried the charges of manslaughter and negligence brought against MCpl. Robbie Fraser as exceedingly harsh. In a tearful phone call Monday, Mr. Walsh's wife, Julie Mason, consoled Mr. Fraser.

The two men were sitting side by side in the backseat of a G-wagon on a bumpy Afghanistan road last August, when MCpl. Fraser's C-7 rifle discharged, killing his comrade and close friend.

The rifle's safety switch had to have been off, in violation of Canadian Forces standard operating procedures. But a retired general said MCpl. Fraser could have inadvertently activated the roughly two-centimetre-long switch in the cramped space of the vehicle.
More on link

 

[armyvern]

Gap,

Your link is not active. Can you please check and repost?

Vern

 

[Yrys]

''Article link'' is active.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070314.wxsoldier14/BNStory/National/?cid=al_gam_nletter_newsUp

 

[CdnArtyWife]

Vern,

The link works...if you use the orange one at the top of the post...the one called Article Link.



CAW

 

[aesop081]

Dead soldier's family bemoans severity of charges against 'amigo'
Experts say rifle's safety could have been switched off accidentally
ALEX DOBROTA From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
Article Link

OTTAWA — The safety on the rifle that killed Master Corporal Jeffrey Walsh could have been flicked off  accidentally when the gun rubbed against a piece of equipment, military experts said yesterday.

call me crazy but i'm sure thats why there's been an investigation !!!

 

[Jarnhamar]

You put a rifle in the back of the G wagon, stuff gets banged around, you pick it up again and notice the saftey is off.
It's acttually hapened to me a couple of times as well as others.

 

[Stetson and Spurs]

I was somewhat surprised when I learned of the Manslaughter charge. And one can only speculate on what transpired, unfortunately we'll have to wait for the court proceedings before we'll truly know what happened.

 

[armyvern]

Just like any investigation which results in charges being laid (civilian trials included) the details, evidence for/against and facts will come out at the trial.

Until then, anything else is pure speculation.

 

[Stetson and Spurs]

I just hope the media doesn't whip this up into something extra-extraordinary as the so often tend to do...

 

[a78jumper]

From the same link:

"In 2000, Lieutenant-Colonel Peter Atkinson was fined $5,000 for negligence after he accidentally set off the turret-mounted machine gun on a tank by bumping into it with his helmet while visiting troops in Kosovo." Recall it was a three round burst of 50 cal.

Fine and dandy, except he was promoted to full Colonel shortly thereafter and sent to Kingston to be BComd. I somehow suspect the outcome would have been different for a junior officer or NCM. Not the first senior officer I saw promoted shortly after a conviction or removal from Command.

As for this state of affairs I feel very sorry for the people involved. No conviction can ever bring back a loved one, and given the apparent accidental nature of this incident, the person responsible will also bear this load the rest of his life. Afghanistan is a different kettle of fish, but my loaded mags were never inserted in my weapon in Cyprus. I was not about start or win  a firefight with ten lousy 9mm rounds. And especially so after a Sigs 2Lt blew away the JOC phone while proving his weapon was clear. At least he aimed it at an inanimate object. Large fine there I recall too.

 

[MJP]

From the same link:

"In 2000, Lieutenant-Colonel Peter Atkinson was fined $5,000 for negligence after he accidentally set off the turret-mounted machine gun on a tank by bumping into it with his helmet while visiting troops in Kosovo." Recall it was a three round burst of 50 cal.

Fine and dandy, except he was promoted to full Colonel shortly thereafter and sent to Kingston to be BComd. I somehow suspect the outcome would have been different for a junior officer or NCM. Not the first senior officer I saw promoted shortly after a conviction or removal from Command.

I've seen guys promoted right after NDs.  One guy after two on the same Exercise, all were NCMs.  NDs happen, training and familiarity are the best cures.

 

[nikiwan]

As a "civilian", having read this current thread. I have a comment and a couple questions.

First and foremost, I find the reaction of MCpl Walsh's family to be admirable to the highest degree. There apparent reaction serves the people involved in the military well and is the only way to start the healing process for everybody involved. It seems that all they were seeking were answers, not vengence or vilication. I hope for the best to them and the family of MCpl Fraser.

The charges appear to be very harsh and aggresive. The questions:

1. Following on the heels of the latest accidental death, is the military making a statement with these charges to its personnel and to the public that "accidents" cannot be tolerated (as misguided as that mentality may be)?

2. In the civilian justice system, if a charge is laid and then you are found innocent, the "punishment" phase is done. In the military court, if the inquiry finds that not enough evidence is present to convict, is the matter dropped (I know career wise it goes on but from a legal standpoint), or, does the not enough evidence merely mean that a "lighter" sentence is imposed rather than the charged ones?

I hope that made sense.

 

[MediTech]

Deleted by user.

 

[aesop081]

  They shouldn't charge him with manslaughter because his weapon accidentally discharged. 

.....and of course you were there right ? You know exactly what happenned right ?

I've handled the C7 alot more than "a few times" so here is my take on all this:

There has been an incident....this incident has lead to an investigation....this has lead to charges.....there will be a trial where facts will come out......

Speculations will end right here and right now......lest i bin this whole thread

army.ca staff

 

[orange.paint]

From the same link:

"In 2000, Lieutenant-Colonel Peter Atkinson was fined $5,000 for negligence after he accidentally set off the turret-mounted machine gun on a tank by bumping into it with his helmet while visiting troops in Kosovo." Recall it was a three round burst of 50 cal.

Fine and dandy, except he was promoted to full Colonel shortly thereafter and sent to Kingston to be BComd. I somehow suspect the outcome would have been different for a junior officer or NCM. Not the first senior officer I saw promoted shortly after a conviction or removal from Command.

Incorrect.We do not have 50 cal mounted on the Leopard.He bent over in the loaders side of the turret hitting his head on the plunger of a loaded c-6 and put a burst into the C/S to his front.Luckly the people who were eating lunch on the C/S had finished minutes prior.Last I heard he was instructing at a military college in the USA.

 

[a78jumper]

I stand corrected.  He is now the EA to General Hillier after completing the US gig.

 

[R.O.S]

Sad story.... I have outmost respect for the family for being so considerate. Hopefully this was an accident, and hopefully (if it was an accident) measures or steps can be taken to prevent another accident. Frightens me to learn from you guys that this 'bump' thing with the safety is not  unusual. 

 

[Osotogari]

My civilian friends, like those of everyone else, have asked me about this matter.  I am reminded by a statement from someone of the previous generation told me when the Somalia witch hunt was on the front page:

"Military justice is to civilian justice as a monkey and his organ grinder are to Beethoven."

I'm inclined to agree.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

If anyone wishes to send their support I provide this link:
http://supportfraser.blogspot.com/

 

[Michael OLeary]

As this is a now a matter undergoing the judicial process, posts will be limited to references to published sources.  From a professional standpoint, we must let the process develop in its own course, without the perception of an "army.ca public opinion" being presented by discussion over the relevance of the relationship between the accused soldiers and the casualty.

If you have an applicable reference to add, please contact a Moderator to open the thread.

Army.ca Staff