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Defeatism and the Canadian Media

FSTO

Army.ca Veteran
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Listening to CTV Question Period with Taber, Oliver and Travers makes me very disappointed in our national media. With no military experience between the 3 of them they have announced that the mission there is a failure, that we cannot win and that this is our Vietnam. Sure glad these folks weren't around during WWII.
I'm not asking for blind cheerleading but maybe some objectivity and other voices. (But please no Steve Staples)

Link: Video
 
Strange, I clicked the link and the video wouldnt play
 
I was unable to run the servlet.
I'll take you at your word.

Many in the media like to get out in front of a perceived wave
and declare victory or failure so they can say they knew it first.

Many in the media think that military anything is misguided.

I think we should identify "defeatists" for what they are and hold
them to account for the damage they do to our national goals and
interests.

Defeatism was a political factor during WW2 and defeatists were called out for
the scourge they are.

It also needs to be pointed out that we (Canada) and our allies are not
involved in a minor disagreement over some fine point of law or principal.
We are involved in a struggle against an evil most Canadians know
or care to know nothing about.

I openly advocate making some noise about it.
It's easy for me - I'm a civvy.
I write letters  and I share my thoughts.

I subscribe to ARMY.ca to keep my stuff straight. ;D

BTW, thanks for bringing this up.





 
Sorry about the link. Go to CTV.ca and click on Politics, at the bottom of the screen there will be a link to open the video.

http://www.ctv.ca/politics
 
OK, Now I've seen it.

These people are MPs in Canada's parliament.
The conservative MP did well.
The liberal guy capitulated a bit from what I have heard Dion say in the past.
Dawn Black however, was allowed air err time to push her
parties' confused agenda. She used the word "quagmire".
I think the NDP are parroting what has been said in some media.

The obvious question to ask the NDP is, how would you bring peace to Afghanistan?
They have never volunteered that. ( to my knowledge )

Not the best example of "defeatism" but I think it's a backlash against
the Vimy Ridge remarks made by the Prime Minister.

Any thoughts anyone? - Have I about got it?


 
Several Cdn soldiers have died!
OMG, Many Cdn soldiers have died!
We are buying TANKS!
It is a quamire.
What is the exit stratregy?
Where was the democratic debate?
We are buying lots of tanks!
Our vehicles break down when they are used!
We can't possibly win this war.

wow.
[sarcasm]I can't see how this could become an election issue[/sarcasm]


 
FSTO said:
Listening to CTV Question Period with Taber, Oliver and Travers makes me very disappointed in our national media. With no military experience between the 3 of them ... [snipped]

Just for the record --

I don't know about Taber and Travers, but Oliver served in the RCN as a young man, sailing out of bases on our West Coast.
 
DavidAkin said:
FSTO said:
Listening to CTV Question Period with Taber, Oliver and Travers makes me very disappointed in our national media. With no military experience between the 3 of them ... [snipped]

Just for the record --

I don't know about Taber and Travers, but Oliver served in the RCN as a young man, sailing out of bases on our West Coast.
Thanks for the clarification, I did not know that Mr Oliver was a former member of the RCN. My apologies.
Now that I think about it, every once in awhile he says things that only a member of the military would know about.
 
David,

Thank you for that. I think what we are all disturbed by is the general know it all air displayed by three journalists who have not been in theatre and especially not outside the wire. I have not been there and the chances of me being deployed are very slight indeed, so I am speaking from second hand knowledge. However it appears that the Taiban have been forced to resort to suicide bombers, mines and IEDs because the odds of them placing no better than second in a fire fight are too great to make it a viable tactic. This situation was predicted late last year, so it has not come as a big surprise. This certainly is not an indication that we are losing the war.

Hint, mounting battle casualties are not an indication that we are losing. These things happen, they are unfortunate, but they are part of war, even a 'little war' like this one. We would all feel better if we felt that those expressing their point of view had bothered to study some of the available literature on counter-insurgency operations and on land combat in general. It is a dirty, nasty business and things going wrong is more or less par for the course. Just as a swallow does not make a summer, a LAV setting off a massive explosive charge does not make a defeat. By the same token, improving our equipment is neither a sign of desperation nor an escalation in the arms race. The aim is to beat the enemy - bringing a gun to a knife fight is not cheating.

One last point, and I feel strongly about this. Contrary to frequently stated opinion, the Afghans have lost a helluva lot more wars than they have won. Alexander the Great beat them. Various Mongols beat them. The British beat them in all three of the wars they fought in Afghanistan, despite suffering some serious reverses in the first two. They, especially the hill tribes, may be warlike and zenophobic, but the divisions inherent in their culture make them beatable.

In closing, David, thanks for caring enough to monitor this forum. I for one appreciate it.
 
The CTV print story on the O'Connor interview was decent reporting.  The Globe and Mail today however used the story for a typical scare-mongering headline.  A post at The Torch:

Quagmire update
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/04/quagmire-update.html

Mark
Ottawa
 
The Globe & Mail left the impression that the 100 tanks are stricly for Afghanistan
 
Thank you as well from me, David.

It is difficult for us not to be cynical about the behaviour of the media when we see their eagerness to cover ramp ceremonies and pointificate about any supposed setback, yet we never see them covering our success. Quick; how many stories were there about the opening of the new road into Panjawai that opened in March? How many about the activities of the PRT or CIMIC in the last week? Month? Year?

Even the fact that this year's military activity is happening in Helmand province seems to have completely escaped the media and various politicians. Last year the fighting was in Kandahar province. The geographic boundaries are moving outwards in our favor yet this is a "quagmire?"

Come over yourself, if you can. I'm sure that once you go out and about with the troops (or even without, in 3/4 of the country) you will realize there is an entirely different story out there. Its worth telling.
 
Thank you David, enjoy your presence on the boards.
 
I always have to laugh at the champagne socialists asking about an exit stategy.
How's this for an exit statetgy:  VICTORY - The Taliban renderred ineffective and the ANA and ANP able to stand on their own two feet, able to do their jobs?


Then again, I'm not a neo-marxist scumbag stuck in the 1960s. 

 
James Travers pushed me over the edge today:

http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/04/ideology-and-ignorance-toxic-mix.html

Educate yourself or STFU.
 
Best line from the online commentary so far:

Travers writing on the military is like a vegan judging a BBQ ribfest.

from here: http://www.damianpenny.com/comments/display/9271#132194  ;D
 
a_majoor said:
Thank you as well from me, David.

It is difficult for us not to be cynical about the behaviour of the media when we see their eagerness to cover ramp ceremonies and pointificate about any supposed setback, yet we never see them covering our success. Quick; how many stories were there about the opening of the new road into Panjawai that opened in March? How many about the activities of the PRT or CIMIC in the last week? Month? Year?
Even the fact that this year's military activity is happening in Helmand province seems to have completely escaped the media and various politicians. Last year the fighting was in Kandahar province. The geographic boundaries are moving outwards in our favor yet this is a "quagmire?"

Come over yourself, if you can. I'm sure that once you go out and about with the troops (or even without, in 3/4 of the country) you will realize there is an entirely different story out there. Its worth telling.

Arthur, exactly.  I was waiting to pick up a guest at KAIA (Kabul Int'l Aprt) in early-06 and ran into Steve Chao (we have a mutual friend in the CTV machine) and we chatted for about an hour and a half as we waited for the Ariana flight to arrive.  Having just had a CBC crew come through our lines with a relatively directed view of things prior to even commencing a battery of interviews and then seeing nothing even closely resembling what was discussed, I regailed Steve with my ever-strengthening cynicism of the mainstream media.  I asked him why the 95% to 5% ratio (or greater) of news about the Battle Group to the other activies in Afghanistan when the BG is roughly about 1/4 to 1/3 (at most) of the Canadian Task Force?  Steve noted that there are a myriad of factors at play, and I understood.  We discussed things some more then commenced the Rugby match that is known as "get your guest's luggage out of Kabul Int'l Arpt terminal in one piece" and went our ways, but I still can't help myself in asking why the media doesn't report more about the PRT's excellent work to provide the very security directly to development activities, and the other military assistance (CIMIC, Training Assistance, Strategic Advisors, etc...) provided to various elements of Afghan society that make meaningful and appreciated contributions to Afghanistan's continuing development.  Kudo's to folks embedding to see what goes on outside the wire, but there are lots of CF-supported assistance activities going on outside the wire (and effected from within, as well)...perhaps we could hear a bit more (proportionately) about that...  ???

G2G
 
I’m pretty sure I don't qualify as a supporter of the media but I think there are a couple of reasons:

• Man bites dog = news, dog bites man = ho hum;

• If it bleeds it leads; and

• Rupert Murdoch, I think, said: the role of journalists is to fill the white spaces between the advertisements.

Notwithstanding the fact that we think it’s important, I suspect that telling Canadians that the PRT is, quietly and competently, doing what it’s supposed to do is not going to sell papers, or ads on CBC news.  Casualties and suggestions that sole-source procurement is un-Canadians are either inherently controversial or they can be used to generate controversy.  Controversy, and blood, sells papers and adverts.

I understand that a few journalists actually believe – or maybe just claim to believe – that they have some sort of ethical duty to inform the masses, but that’s hogwash – their job is to sell soap, nothing more.  You guys are just potential bits of a good story, if you screw up or get killed.
 
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