Defence Policy in the 2006 General Election
- Thread starter ArmyRick
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I am favouring the Conservatives more and more each passing day.....
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Almeida said:
Yeah, and every time I think the same thing, their defense critic opens his mouth and awes us with another pearl of wisdom.
The Conservatives are making a lot of promises right now, specifically aimed at us. An Airborne unit in Trenton, a 650 member rapid reaction battalion in BC, etc etc. They are jingling their proverbial car keys, and we, their noble golden retrievers, all want to go for a car ride
I don't know how many votes this is going to get them in the long run, as IMO the majority of Canadians would rather cut their daycare expenses by $50 a month(as an example of personal priorities. That's not on any parties' platform, as far as I know) than see Canadian troops doing something to better the world.
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With the Conservatives funding backing up Mr. Hilliers plans we would be unstoppable...
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Well if Harper does half of what he says, it'll be twice as much as the lieberals have done in twelve years.
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I'd agree with a Army presence in BC... but not at an air force base on an island. Chilliwack seems like an obvious choice. Rectifying DND's fascination with incredibly horrible real estate (Wainwright, Shilo...) would be a positive step for training and retention.
Territorial defence units? Yikes.... so we have a dozen Territorial Defence Units (of some miscenallenous branch/trade/arm) across Canada, each sucking up 100 Reg F troops and 400 Reservists... doing what? They won't be qualified to deploy overseas, being in such small units spread out. I hope to god the new role for the army isn't urban civilian search and rescue or snow shovelling - which is what these half-assed battalions sound like to me.
I don't think we need to get too excited about all this - about the details anyways. First of all, they're just election promises - and we know what they're worth. Second, in the last election Paul Martin made big news about his promise of a "5,000-strong peacekeeping brigade". We lambasted that obviously inane proprosal for a couple dozen pages on here. And in the end? We have a 5,000 person recruiting surge, a CSOR, a battle group on its way too combat in Afghanistan, and some aircraft on the way.
I'm going to try to think positively, and believe that the Conservatives have ideas for a huge, far better funded military with a broader and more active role. The details, I hope, will be hashed out by General Hillier when/if he sits down with Harper and O'Connor.
Territorial defence units? Yikes.... so we have a dozen Territorial Defence Units (of some miscenallenous branch/trade/arm) across Canada, each sucking up 100 Reg F troops and 400 Reservists... doing what? They won't be qualified to deploy overseas, being in such small units spread out. I hope to god the new role for the army isn't urban civilian search and rescue or snow shovelling - which is what these half-assed battalions sound like to me.
I don't think we need to get too excited about all this - about the details anyways. First of all, they're just election promises - and we know what they're worth. Second, in the last election Paul Martin made big news about his promise of a "5,000-strong peacekeeping brigade". We lambasted that obviously inane proprosal for a couple dozen pages on here. And in the end? We have a 5,000 person recruiting surge, a CSOR, a battle group on its way too combat in Afghanistan, and some aircraft on the way.
I'm going to try to think positively, and believe that the Conservatives have ideas for a huge, far better funded military with a broader and more active role. The details, I hope, will be hashed out by General Hillier when/if he sits down with Harper and O'Connor.
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I can see it as being a great saviour of the Armd Reserve Units. Post in a Sqn of Reg Force Armd to these centers with their equipment and then go into a Training cycle. They would have the people to maintain and train their vehicles and equipment from the start, and through their training cycle, will start to include the local Reserve Armd soldiers who would then have more ready access to the vehicles and equipment. Vehicles and Equipment would not deteriorate due to lack of PY in maint. This would build up a number of trained (ie. Coyote) Armd Reservists who could be slotted into positions for Tours. Some Reg Armd soldiers could have the opportunity to serve in a major city, as opposed to Petawawa. It would alleviate current problems in the Reg Regts of only having equip for 1/3 of their strength. (Of course, more Equipment would have to be purchased to implement this plan.)
Perhaps as the time progresses, more Crses such as SQ, Trades and PLQ could be more effectively run in the Major centers, due to a strong Training Cadre being developed in line with this.
Perhaps as the time progresses, more Crses such as SQ, Trades and PLQ could be more effectively run in the Major centers, due to a strong Training Cadre being developed in line with this.
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I wasn't looking at them as Training Cadres per say, but as a Unit, that would be able to incorporate Reservists into its normal Training Cycle over time and in effect bring up the calibre of training available to Reservists in its sphere of influence. That would give it and the CF trained Reservist that would be able to augment that unit or another in Dom Ops or Tours.
It may even permit the increase in numbers of Class A and B callouts in that locality. It would allow Reservists to augment and fill out that Reg Force Unit, or effectively double its size, and at the same time keep the Reservists up to speed on current equipment.
Currently many Reservists, due to civie job issues, can not get away for courses at Regular Force Bases or the various Training Areas. With a Regular Force Unit in the Major centers, that problem may be overcome. Even if there is one opening on a Crse of twenty, it is still a step in the right direction, and an oportunity to bring up the skills of the Reserves.
It may even permit the increase in numbers of Class A and B callouts in that locality. It would allow Reservists to augment and fill out that Reg Force Unit, or effectively double its size, and at the same time keep the Reservists up to speed on current equipment.
Currently many Reservists, due to civie job issues, can not get away for courses at Regular Force Bases or the various Training Areas. With a Regular Force Unit in the Major centers, that problem may be overcome. Even if there is one opening on a Crse of twenty, it is still a step in the right direction, and an oportunity to bring up the skills of the Reserves.
Gunner
Army.ca Veteran
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George, you may be right as the Conservatives announcement is short on explanation as to what these soldiers (Reg or Res) will be doing in the major centres. I don't believe it is the stand up of the new units (or augmenting of preexisting ones) will have any focus on training in traditional combat skills as there isn't any equipment to do so under the current Whole Fleet Management plan. As I mentioned in another thread, they will probably be focussed on first responder style tasks (NBCD, mass casualty scenarios, etc). In essence they would be superimposed on preexisiting municipal and provincial plans. Time will tell...
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Perhaps this is an opportunity for us to develop a coherent idea as to what this should develop as.
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Even if they just had current comms, off-road vehicles (not Suburbans - something a bit more rugged and capable of being used tactically and logistically) along with small arms and light pintle mounted weapons wouldn't they be capable of both useful training and also be able to supply useful back-up for dom-ops?
My sense of watching Katrina and other disasters is that the first requirements are a secure base of operations, a body of people capable of conducting a useful recce, communications and transportation. All things that a military unit can supply without compromising its military functions - in fact all necessary to their own operations. Katrina also demonstrated the need for a disciplined security force in some instances.
I don't think we need to go back to the rope and ladder days of the 50s for the militia to be able to contribute meaningfully in a crisis. It can still organize and train to function militarily, tactically.
IMHO.
My sense of watching Katrina and other disasters is that the first requirements are a secure base of operations, a body of people capable of conducting a useful recce, communications and transportation. All things that a military unit can supply without compromising its military functions - in fact all necessary to their own operations. Katrina also demonstrated the need for a disciplined security force in some instances.
I don't think we need to go back to the rope and ladder days of the 50s for the militia to be able to contribute meaningfully in a crisis. It can still organize and train to function militarily, tactically.
IMHO.
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Sorry i didnt have time to read all your posts (school work) but i was looking on the sites and found the defence statements for the Liberals and Conservatives
This Is the Liberals http://www.liberal.ca/issue_e.aspx?itype=62#dap
And The Conservatives http://www.conservative.ca/EN/2326/31916 there wasnt alot on the defence statement that i could find for the Conseavative's .But from what i read the Liberals is the same that they have been promising for years. Or what they've alread done.
This Is the Liberals http://www.liberal.ca/issue_e.aspx?itype=62#dap
And The Conservatives http://www.conservative.ca/EN/2326/31916 there wasnt alot on the defence statement that i could find for the Conseavative's .But from what i read the Liberals is the same that they have been promising for years. Or what they've alread done.
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Has anyone picked up today's Ottawa Citizen? Defence got a HUGE spot in the saturday observer and a front page margin. Basically it says Con/Lib it doesnt matter; the CF is getting a big boost hands down.
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Harper is at again, 650 more troops to be stationed in BAGOTVILLE.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Render&c=Article&cid=1136242214744&call_pageid=968332188774
OTTAWA—Paul Martin has failed to accomplish much as Prime Minister because he erratically flits from "priority" to "priority," charges Conservative Leader Stephen Harper.
Buoyed by public opinion polls showing him in a statistical dead heat with Martin, Harper began the second half of the federal election campaign yesterday by painting himself as a decisive and focused leader.
His Liberal rival, in contrast, has "56 top priorities," which essentially means he has none, the Conservative leader said.
"This is one of the Martin government's greatest weaknesses," he told about 150 raucous supporters at a rally in Ottawa.
To underscore that point, the Conservatives distributed a list of 56 Martin quotes from the past three years where he cited everything from health care in Burkina Faso and peace in Sri Lanka to protecting the Arctic and funding public transit as a "priority."
"You can't be all things to all people at every moment. You simply cannot allow yourself to be pulled in 56 different directions," the Tory leader said.
Because Martin appears so easily distracted by whatever issue pops up, Harper said the federal government is in a state of paralysis.
"Compared to ... Trudeau, Mulroney, Diefenbaker, Pearson little, very little, very, very little" has been accomplished, he said, referring to former Liberal and Tory prime ministers.
Unlike the Liberals, Harper said a Conservative government would have just five key priorities if elected Jan. 23:
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Cutting the GST immediately from 7 per cent to 6 per cent and then down to 5 per cent within five years.
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Cracking down on crime.
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Passing the Federal Accountability Act to clean up government.
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Working with the provinces to establish a patient wait-times guarantee.
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Helping parents with $1,200 annual baby bonus cheques for children under the age of six to be put toward child care.
"These are all things we intend to move on aggressively," Harper said. "Obviously some of them would face more resistance in a minority Parliament than a majority Parliament." While Harper played down the polls showing the Conservatives could replace the Liberals at the helm of a minority government, he said he understood why his message was starting to resonate with voters.
"We've led the way in this campaign because we've led with ideas and ideas are what Canadians want," he said. "They're tired of slurs, scandals and spin. They want real solutions to the challenges of ordinary working people." Later in the day, Harper used a gathering of about 100 Tories in Jonquière, Que., to announce a new 650-member rapid-reaction army battalion would be stationed at CFB Bagotville.
Three weeks ago, he announced a similar unit, designed to respond to emergencies and disasters at home and abroad, would also be based at CFB Trenton.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Render&c=Article&cid=1136242214744&call_pageid=968332188774
OTTAWA—Paul Martin has failed to accomplish much as Prime Minister because he erratically flits from "priority" to "priority," charges Conservative Leader Stephen Harper.
Buoyed by public opinion polls showing him in a statistical dead heat with Martin, Harper began the second half of the federal election campaign yesterday by painting himself as a decisive and focused leader.
His Liberal rival, in contrast, has "56 top priorities," which essentially means he has none, the Conservative leader said.
"This is one of the Martin government's greatest weaknesses," he told about 150 raucous supporters at a rally in Ottawa.
To underscore that point, the Conservatives distributed a list of 56 Martin quotes from the past three years where he cited everything from health care in Burkina Faso and peace in Sri Lanka to protecting the Arctic and funding public transit as a "priority."
"You can't be all things to all people at every moment. You simply cannot allow yourself to be pulled in 56 different directions," the Tory leader said.
Because Martin appears so easily distracted by whatever issue pops up, Harper said the federal government is in a state of paralysis.
"Compared to ... Trudeau, Mulroney, Diefenbaker, Pearson little, very little, very, very little" has been accomplished, he said, referring to former Liberal and Tory prime ministers.
Unlike the Liberals, Harper said a Conservative government would have just five key priorities if elected Jan. 23:
#
Cutting the GST immediately from 7 per cent to 6 per cent and then down to 5 per cent within five years.
#
Cracking down on crime.
#
Passing the Federal Accountability Act to clean up government.
#
Working with the provinces to establish a patient wait-times guarantee.
#
Helping parents with $1,200 annual baby bonus cheques for children under the age of six to be put toward child care.
"These are all things we intend to move on aggressively," Harper said. "Obviously some of them would face more resistance in a minority Parliament than a majority Parliament." While Harper played down the polls showing the Conservatives could replace the Liberals at the helm of a minority government, he said he understood why his message was starting to resonate with voters.
"We've led the way in this campaign because we've led with ideas and ideas are what Canadians want," he said. "They're tired of slurs, scandals and spin. They want real solutions to the challenges of ordinary working people." Later in the day, Harper used a gathering of about 100 Tories in Jonquière, Que., to announce a new 650-member rapid-reaction army battalion would be stationed at CFB Bagotville.
Three weeks ago, he announced a similar unit, designed to respond to emergencies and disasters at home and abroad, would also be based at CFB Trenton.
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The quote of 650 doesn't make sense.
If it were just a number, I would have expected it to be beefing up of the Air Force elements there, but a 650 Rapid Reaction Bn just doesn't make much sense. There seems to be a major fixation of stationing large numbers of Combat Arms troops into Air Force Bases that don't have the infrastructure, nor the room to house them.
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I was listening to CBC this morning as well, and they ran his speech. He also said that they would increase the infrastructure of Bagotville to be able to support this new Battalion.
So what is the running total now?
Comox - 650
Trenton - 650
Bagotville - 650
Iqaliut - 500
Hopefully the CSOR wouldn't be stopped if the 'Conservatives' win - 800
So there are 3250 troops right there! Add in the 100 reg force pers in each major city... figure another 600 troops there... Will they disperse the brigades to do this?
So what is the running total now?
Comox - 650
Trenton - 650
Bagotville - 650
Iqaliut - 500
Hopefully the CSOR wouldn't be stopped if the 'Conservatives' win - 800
So there are 3250 troops right there! Add in the 100 reg force pers in each major city... figure another 600 troops there... Will they disperse the brigades to do this?
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What's with all these "rapid reaction battalions"? Does the Brigade in Valcartier not count for anything; how will sticking one in Bagotville help?!? Since Mr Harper is handing these things out like candy, I wish he'd define what the heck they are....
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